L200 questions

[Alobar]

Hello! First post on this great site. Just want to say how impressive I am finding the knowledge base is here! Far above my own certainly. I currently have a pair of L65 Jubals I have owned since 1975 and to my good fortune I soon may be reunited with my old L200's that I let go of to my oldest brother some 30 years ago. He is downsizing and phoned me up and said can't deal with large speakers anymore. These I bought new in the winter of 1974 (40 years ago, WOW!) and it has since been one of my biggest nagging regrets having let them get out of my possession! Anyway onto my questions.

My L65's have seen better days. The cab's while solid have scratches and dings and the corners are a bit banged up where the particle board is rearing its ugly head. The woofers have both been replaced with non-JBL 12" units which I am not at all fond of. The other drivers, including the 077 tweeters are original. When I do pick up my old L-200's I am likely going to want to do some work to them, as I understand it the crossovers will likely benefit from new capacitors and possibly the horn and woofer will need attention too although I am still unclear as to what will be needed on those. I have read on this forum quite a bit about the L300's being superior to the Studio Master and have read what others have done to L200's to make them sound closer to the 300's. One idea that sounded promising was to add 077's and modify the crossover for a 3-way conversion. I was thinking about the 077's in my Jubals and possibly cannibalizing them, basically ending their existence other than cabinets with a crossover and a midrange. How difficult would this be to add these 077's to the L200's, (both in expense and skill) and would it somehow devalue the L200's by doing so? I guess the resale value part really doesn't matter so much as I will likely never part with these again, partly because of my location, shipping costs alone to any sort of geographical area with real market demand would be a deal killer. As I remember my old 200's sounded pretty great as they were, probably the best sounding speaker I have ever heard then or since, but then I don't get out a lot to hear other systems here in the backwaters of Alaska! Part of me hates to see the L-65's be stripped and sacrificed, but as I remember when I had both these sets together I just shut the 65's off as the L200's completely dominated the room and drowned the little ones out. I am also possibly going to be getting my old amp/preamp back too that I bought in 75, a Kenwood 700M and 700C but as it no longer works it may be tough to bring back from the dead.
Anyway will appreciate any opinions and advice on which route to take when I do get my old system back.
Thanks!
Dave in AK

[Mr. Widget]

Welcome aboard Dave!

Do you have the first or second generation L200? (I'll guess first generation with LE15B since you bought them in 1975.)

Either way, I would get them home and set up with proper electronics before I thought about messing around with them. If after a good listen you still want to tweak them, you might want to try an equalizer with them instead of cutting into them and messing them up.

If they were mine, I would make them into L300s with a small box behind to allow the longer 2312 horn, I would swap out the woofers if they are the LE15Bs, I would add 077s, and I would build new CC'd 3133A networks.


Widget

[Alobar]

Hi Mr Widget, and thanks for the welcome. Yes these are just L200, first generation Studio Masters. Bought them when I was 19 YO and was the instant hit of the neighborhood as you can imagine! They survived the 70's and my brother has since had them as I was moving around too much to keep them. The big Kenwood amp died while in his possession and so I doubt they have made a sound in at least 20 years.

As for converting them to L300's I see the HF driver (LE85) is the same as the Summit so just need the h92 horn for that part. And the 077's would have to come out of the Jubals at some point, but not before I get the new woofers and crossovers. This will probably have to happen as funds become available. What would you say would aid the 200's sound quality more, the added 077 or the H92? On the one hand just getting the longer horn alone wouldn't require a new network, so it could be the first step in what I see would be a process.

That sounds like good advice however so I will just see how they sound as is, and then maybe just new capacitors alone as a starting point..

One thing, these speakers hold strong sentimental value for me as I have so little left from that part of my life, which is in addition to the great reputation as well as the nostalgia that JBL seems to hold onto all over the world.

[hjames]

I don't know if you'd find it helpful, but I went down that path over the last few years ... started off with a pair of pro cabinet 4320s - wound up moving them into L200 cabinets, built 3133 crossovers from schematic they posted here ...
Although I bought a pair of the long horns and made boxes to use for bump-outs, I didn't actually go that route,
... I wound up trying Smith horns and went with that technique instead ...

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...erdeen)/page15

[Mr. Widget]

That sounds like good advice however so I will just see how they sound as is, and then maybe just new capacitors alone as a starting point..

I wouldn't waste my time on the caps... they are likely still OK, and the design of the crossovers was a weak point of the speaker when they were first built.


Widget

[Alobar]

I don't know if you'd find it helpful, but I went down that path over the last few years ... started off with a pair of pro cabinet 4320s - wound up moving them into L200 cabinets, built 3133 crossovers from schematic they posted here ...
Although I bought a pair of the long horns and made boxes to use for bump-outs, I didn't actually go that route,
... I wound up trying Smith horns and went with that technique instead ...

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...erdeen)/page15

HI hjames, been reading about and drooling over your 200's for a few days now since I joined this forum ! Very nice! They must sound great with the tube amp too. How many watts does your amp produce and do you ever feel underpowered? I remember when I had my old Kenwood 700 which was 170 w per channel it seemed like I almost never had to go above 1.7watts to flood the room with Great sound. I have been thinking about possibly building a tube amp, knowing how really efficient the L200 is I would think that 10 watts wo uld be plenty enough for my ears.
Dave

[Alobar]

I wouldn't waste my time on the caps... they are likely still OK, and the design of the crossovers was a weak point of the speaker when they were first built.


Widget

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't aware of the weakness in the design of the crossover. Does that tie in with the LE15B as being the reason to change it out because of some incompatibility with other better crossovers or does the LE15B have issues all their own? I was always impressed with their sound but then I didn't have all that much to compare them to then except for some Bose 901's which were no competition! .
Dave

[Mr. Widget]

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't aware of the weakness in the design of the crossover. Does that tie in with the LE15B as being the reason to change it out because of some incompatibility with other better crossovers or does the LE15B have issues all their own? I was always impressed with their sound but then I didn't have all that much to compare them to then except for some Bose 901's which were no competition! .
Dave

I don't mean to suggest that the LE15Bs or the LX-16 crossovers are terrible, it's just the JBL has come along way since then.

The L100s for example are far from state-of-the-art. However I have a pair I use in my office and I enjoy the hell out of them as they are. I don't feel compelled to screw around with them at all. They are 100% original and sound as good or as bad as they ever have and I think that's just fine. I use a vintage Marantz receiver with them and every time I play a song from the 70s it's a little blast from the past.


Widget

[SEAWOLF97]

I wouldn't waste my time on the caps... they are likely still OK, and the design of the crossovers was a weak point of the speaker when they were first built.


Widget

around the web , I read over & over "I just got some fantastic vintage XXX speakers, first thing I'm gonna do is replace the caps"

why do so many think this is so essential ? Why not listen to them first ? Are new caps more important than the drivers ?

sorry if this was addressed in the original post , I couldn't get all the way through that big blob of text, made me dizzy.

[grumpy]

Lol... When I was in high school, you could replace "speakers" with "car"... It's a mentality... exaggerated in the comedy of Tim Allen.

[hjames]

around the web , I read over & over "I just got some fantastic vintage XXX speakers, first thing I'm gonna do is replace the caps"

why do so many think this is so essential ? Why not listen to them first ? Are new caps more important than the drivers ?

sorry if this was addressed in the original post , I couldn't get all the way through that big blob of text, made me dizzy.

I had a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10s, replaced the caps - still weren't very impressed with them ...

I added 2405 slot tweeters and built new 3133 crossovers for what started life as L200 speakers -
the new design made a huge difference. Caps alone would not have made that much of a leap.

I had a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10s couple years ago. Replaced the caps - still weren't very impressed with them ...

I got a pair of English KEF 105/4 speakers Feb '14. KEF fans on Ak said caps were a major shortcoming and would be the first thing to upgrade.
I replaced the caps with better ones than they used back in the late 70s, the sound really improved a TON ... they are keepers.
For what its worth, with the KEF speakers I did them one at a time, you could hear a major difference between them once the first one was upgraded. ...

I think it varies from speaker to speaker. Even JBL has done some speakers with high grade parts and others were more ... "price conscious" ...

But yep, kids online are Cap-happy, for sure ...

And - the Jolida tube amp is rated 60w/ch - seems to be plenty in that room!

[Mr. Widget]

I got a pair of English KEF 105/4 speakers Feb '14. KEF fans on Ak said caps were a major shortcoming and would be the first thing to upgrade.
I replaced the caps with better ones than they used back in the late 70s, the sound really improved a TON ... they are keepers.
For what its worth, with the KEF speakers I did them one at a time, you could hear a major difference between them once the first one was upgraded. ...

I think it varies from speaker to speaker.

Lots of audio gear, electronics and speakers can be improved with a cap upgrade... they can also change for the worse with a cap "upgrade". There are many variables, not the least of which is the long term stability of the original caps.


Widget

[grumpy]

Yes... I wasn't intending to say it's -all- mental, but there should be a good reason to tear into something considered "vintage", when much of the monetary value is tied to originality, warts and all.

[Mr. Widget]

Yes... I wasn't intending to say it's -all- mental, but there should be a good reason to tear into something considered "vintage", when much of the monetary value is tied to originality, warts and all.

Widget

[Alobar]

I don't mean to suggest that the LE15Bs or the LX-16 crossovers are terrible, it's just the JBL has come along way since then.

The L100s for example are far from state-of-the-art. However I have a pair I use in my office and I enjoy the hell out of them as they are. I don't feel compelled to screw around with them at all. They are 100% original and sound as good or as bad as they ever have and I think that's just fine. I use a vintage Marantz receiver with them and every time I play a song from the 70s it's a little blast from the past.


Widget

I was wondering if the LE15B's are design wise a close descendant of the LE 15A's which appear to be dated back to the early 60's? Going by the Consumer Systems Reference chart those went into many different models including the older Paragons. The LE15B's seem to have only went into the earlier L200's.

Anyway, no caps, at least not before living with them again for a while! The deal with that is I sort of live in a bubble here and don't get to listen to other systems to compare so will have to go by memory as to how well the 200's sound and the last time I heard these was sometime around the mid 80's. Still if they sound like they did I will know it soon enough!
Dave