Hi im looking at power amps for a pair of 4343s
They are Yamaha Bx-1 Monoblocks. Putting out 100w pure class A each. Will this be sufficient power? Ive read elsewhere that min 300w is desirable for 4343s
http://audio-heritage.jp/YAMAHA/amp/bx-1.html
Alternatively I can wait a while (quite a while) and eventually go for these...
Exclusive M5 monoblocks. 300w each.
http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EX.../amp/m5-e.html
Thanks.
All I know is what I know.
I've been bi-amping a pair of 4345s for several years now using one Crown PS-400 and one PS-200 and an Ashly XR1001 crossover. I can't imagine needing any more power and I can play them far beyond any reasonable volume level without even flickering the amps' IOC lights with perfectly clear sound. The PS-400 is rated at 190 WPC @ 8-ohms or 660 in bridged mono. I have enough amps to run one bridged on each side but I don't see why I'd want to. Maybe some day I'll give it a try. I also have a Crown Studio Reference-II, rated 355-WPC I've yet to try.
JBL says the maximum power input for the 4343 is 75-watts top and bottom if bi-amped (75 watts for single) and recommended amplifier power is 150-watts per channel. For my 4345s JBL recommends max 200-watts on the bottom using a 400-watt amp and 100 on the top with a 200-watt amp. I guess I'm not giving them as much as I could, but I'm happy with what I'm hearing. I guess what I'm saying is you'll likely be pleased using what you've got, but a bit more wouldn't hurt!
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
I had a pair of 4341s - same drivers, slightly different box size.
I ran mine with an Adcom GFA-555 (200w/ch) later I set them up in Bi-amp mode and used a PAIR of GFA-555s ...
Originally Posted by Goldjazz
2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460
[QUOTE=BMWCCA;361725]All I know is what I know..
JBL says the maximum power input for the 4343 is 75-watts top and bottom if bi-amped (75 watts for single) and recommended amplifier power is 150-watts per channel.
Cheers. So the 100w monos would be under power if connected in non biamped mode using the internal X over?
Ive read a lot on this forum about the benefits of biamping 4343s. So im now wondering if buying big ass monos with the intent of not biamping is a bad idea. If I invest in 300w monos and then decide I want to try biamping then I have way overkill power on the bottom and need to buy another amp for the top.
I do i have a sweet SS integrated Sansui that puts out 130wpc. So that comes close to the 150. But i was under the impression that greater power and damping factor of some big amps would yield better dynamics and tighter bass?
Don't bother with such big, expensive amps. BiAamping is much more worthwile with 4343's.
I'm powering mine with Krell KSA-50 (highs) and Crown K2 is powering the woofers. Believe me 50W is plenty for the mid/high section, it's only the 2231/2235 that likes power.
The bass is also MUCH better with bi-amping, my woofers are connected directly to the K2
While I definitely agree on bi-amping, Martin said:and then wrote:I guess he's never priced a Crown PS-400 or an Adcom GFA-555. I know what a K1 goes for these days and the Krell will normally bring three-times the price of a PS-400, if not more. And the Krell weighs in at over 60-pounds. The Crown PS-400 weighs about 55 pounds and the Adcom about 34.
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
Ok so im now going to consider a biamp approach.
Ok so I can get my hands on a jbl 5234a. See attached pic. I assume the "4343 low" text in the windows indicates 4343 cards installed.
I mentioned I have a SS integrated Sansui au10000. That puts out 130 wpc. I will use this as the pre to feed the 5234a and the power section to feed the hf of the speakers. I will then get another power amp.
I have seen some debate on what is required for the low freq power amp so im thinking 200wpc to be safe. I have an interest in vintage japanese amps so I will be looking in the accuphase, sansui, yamaha, exclusive or luxman family. Is there any compatiablity with the sansui I should consider?
So does this sound crazy? Switch the sansui to separate mode. Connect my source to the pre in of the sansui. Connect pre out of sansui to the 5234a. Connect hf out of 5234a to the power amp in of the sansui. Connect LF out of 5234a to the second power amp. Connecting the sansui speaker outs to the hf of each speaker. Connect the second power amp speaker outs to the LF of each speaker.
I started bi-amping more than 40 years ago. Back then, big power for consumer amps was 50 watts....
Frankly, bi-amping is tricky to pull off well, so I avoid it now. It is not necessary with todays transistor amps
If I were you, I would consider 200 watts per channel the minimum.
If possible, borrow a big amp and test it out. I think you will find, 100 WPC is not a very good option.
Biamping is not that hard. I've done it with my 4341s, Phil has done it on his 4345s, a number of folks here have done it.
Decide if you want one of the older JBL/UREI crossovers from back in the day, or a newer adjustable active crossover like the Ashley we used,
or an even nicer piece like the Marchand crossover Dhar used in his 4345 (http://www.marchandelec.com/xovers.html)
Decide if you want to biamp horizontal or vertically, like Rolf did with his 4343s.
With vertical you would use matched amps, one for each speaker -
use left channel for Low pass leg, right channel for the high pass leg (for instance).
The claimed gain for this is less load on the power supplies when there is a peak bass moment.
Horizontal means one amp for the Low pass leg, another for the high pass leg, & they don't have to be matched.
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7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460
While I definitely agree on bi-amping, Martin said: and then wrote: I guess he's never priced a Crown PS-400 or an Adcom GFA-555. I know what a K1 goes for these days and the Krell will normally bring three-times the price of a PS-400, if not more. And the Krell weighs in at over 60-pounds. The Crown PS-400 weighs about 55 pounds and the Adcom about 34.
I was referring to the Pioneer and Yamaha gear the TS mentioned in his first post as my guess was that a pair of those Exclusive mono's would be around $3000-4000?
I must admit that I forgot about the price differences, I paid e1500 for my both amps which is around $2k.
For me, an example of a big amp was a Yamaha PC5002M and Krell 200B, both at 130 lbs each. The 50 is the smallest one except the KAV series and the KST
As for active xover goes, I'd look for a more modern design than the 5234/35. I had the xx35 and for me it was a bit 'meh' sounding.
The M552 was already better and the recapped BSS FDS360 sounds the best in my system.
The next step would probably be an Accuphase or Pass crosover but they are very expensive.
Hi,Don't bother with such big, expensive amps. BiAamping is much more worthwile with 4343's.
I'm powering mine with Krell KSA-50 (highs) and Crown K2 is powering the woofers. Believe me 50W is plenty for the mid/high section, it's only the 2231/2235 that likes power.
The bass is also MUCH better with bi-amping, my woofers are connected directly to the K2
I'm using Crown F2 and a Pass Aleph 5 ...soon to be replaced with Pass F5. I hope there F5 will support the listening levels that I need but I do expect mid/high improvement
BTW, are you bypassing the switch in your biamping?
George
Cheers hjames. Sounds like Horizontal may suit me as it means i only need to buy one other amp, if the proposal i've said above is ok. I wont be able to match my sansui i would say, and I dont want to sell it. Would there be an advantage with horizontal as you could choose an amp which suits the woofers better and another that suits the HF better? e.g. higher damping factor for the woofers. Or is there no advantage vertical vs horizontal? the other advantage with horizontal is that i could get a higher power amp for the second amp and experiment with normal non-biamped with that amp as well to Rob's experience of keeping it simple.
As for the external X over. I would like to get the benefits of biamping without while maintianing the orignal sound if you know what I mean. So I wonder if the JBL/urei's would be the best with that in mind. I know nothing about the ashley's and the modern ones, but are these digital? and if so does the sampling rate etc of those then potentially become the weak link. I will generally be playing hi sample rate flacs etc through a muscial fidelity m1 dac then sending to the pre.
I plan to bypass it but don't want to touch it with my soldering skills.
I've tried both 5234A and Ashly for 4343 in biamp mode. Yea, 5234A with the factory 4343 cards, reading "4343Lo".
My impression is I hear quite good sound from the former despite its old design of the 1970s.
You could get additional sound reinforcement from Ashly by controlling its high/low buttons on the front panel.
Then you have to think about the original sonic tonality of your 4343, I think.
Our forum members rule in favor of the modern-design Ashly for good reason.
(Think about the slope difference: 5234A has 12db/octave while Ashly 24db/octave.)
So, it's up to your personal preferences whether you want to use 5234A or Ashly.
In my case, I love this vintage JBL gear for my own preferences as well as their time-tested quality.
[QUOTE=pyonc;362676]I've tried both 5234A and Ashly for 4343 in biamp mode. Yea, 5234A with the factory 4343 cards, reading "4343Lo".
Cheers pyonc. Yeah authenticity is important to me too which is why I was considering it.
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