Power amp for jbl 4343

[pyonc]

[QUOTE=Goldjazz;362713]

I've tried both 5234A and Ashly for 4343 in biamp mode. Yea, 5234A with the factory 4343 cards, reading "4343Lo".

Cheers pyonc. Yeah authenticity is important to me too which is why I was considering it.

One more fact for your reference:
Jazz cafe Basie, the most famous jazz club in Japan, uses exclusively JBL vintage gear:
SG520 preamp, SE400S power amp, JBL 2220B (woofer), JBL 375+537+512 (midrange) JBL 075 (tweeter)
And you know what? The channel dividing network is JBL 5232!
Cafe owner Shoiji Sugawara is a well known jazz critic with erudite knowledge of all kinds of expensive modern gear.
Yet he sticks to these vintage JBL gear and the active crossover 5232, though there are much better modern-design crossovers like Bryston 10B, etc.
Those who visited the club testify they feel as if jazz greats from the 1940s and 1950s just walk alive from the records
he plays on Linn, with this great JBL set-up.
Even JBL executives and chief engineer Greg Timbers reportedly were amazed at Basie's sonorous and real jazzy, even modern sound from such vintage set-up, as comparable to JBL signature Everest. Here is the link in this forum:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=12206

[BMWCCA]

Really?? You fuss about a nearly 8 year old post from 09-11-2006, 09:47 PM ...

Oh I enjoyed the thread—then and now—but I obviously neglected to use enough smilie emoticons for you!!

I would hardly categorize it as a "fuss". It wasn't as if he'd written harmon/killebrew. (Ahh, memories of the old Adirondack I swung as a kid.)

[Goldjazz]

Thanks for that Basie link, what a crazy cool guy that swifty seems. Amazing setup. I'm not sure if Basie club is still there, If so, I wish I knew about this place a month ago when I was in Japan. I visited a number of amazing hifi shops all over the country (including Kendrick Sound, a few Hifido and others). I listened to many different JBL's 4333's. 4343's, 4344, and a Paragon. The Paragon was the most impressive experience - sitting across from it I could feel the kick drum on hotel california inside my chest, one day I'll get one But I decided on a pair of 4343's, I heard a few pairs of these driven from various setups and I liked these. The one's I've bought will be a a bit of a "project" refoaming required, and probably recapping but I'm super excited, they wont arrive for several weeks. I'll certainly be calling upon this forum to help me once again as with the 4311 restoration I did.

[pyonc]

Thanks for that Basie link, what a crazy cool guy that swifty seems. Amazing setup. I'm not sure if Basie club is still there, If so, I wish I knew about this place a month ago when I was in Japan. I visited a number of amazing hifi shops all over the country (including Kendrick Sound, a few Hifido and others). I listened to many different JBL's 4333's. 4343's, 4344, and a Paragon. The Paragon was the most impressive experience - sitting across from it I could feel the kick drum on hotel california inside my chest, one day I'll get one But I decided on a pair of 4343's, I heard a few pairs of these driven from various setups and I liked these. The one's I've bought will be a a bit of a "project" refoaming required, and probably recapping but I'm super excited, they wont arrive for several weeks. I'll certainly be calling upon this forum to help me once again as with the 4311 restoration I did.

Yea, it's still there, of course. I guess your choice of 4343 was right, if you love jazz.
Here is a couple of Youtube links on this Basie club and its owner Sugawara san's drum solo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeBwWO9BoBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXLm3cK0YpA

[Goldjazz]

Yea, it's still there, of course. I guess your choice of 4343 was right, if you love jazz.
Here is a couple of Youtube links on this Basie club and its owner Sugawara san's drum solo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeBwWO9BoBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXLm3cK0YpA

cool, thanks for the clips. Yes love jazz there will definetley do the job, although my name doesn't come from loving jazz it's a long story: )

[Goldjazz]

Ok,

So what do we think about two Accuphase P-300 amplifiers driving the 4343's in Biamp mode? 150 Wpc into 8 ohms.

http://audio-database.com/Accuphase-...p/P-300-e.html

Regards.

[pyonc]

Ok,

So what do we think about two Accuphase P-300 amplifiers driving the 4343's in Biamp mode? 150 Wpc into 8 ohms.

http://audio-database.com/Accuphase-...p/P-300-e.html

Regards.

Currently I'm using Crown DC300A Series II for lows, and D-150A for highs in biamp mode.
Main reason is its great damping factor, which means tight bass.
Crown's damping factor is greater than 750 from DC to 400 Hz, according to its manual.

I see Accuphase P-300's damping factor a bit below average, given the range 0 to 50.

Dumping factor

20 (for 8-ohm load and 20Hz - 20kHz) or more

[martin2395]

I tried my 4343's in full pasive mode again, after a few months running be amped.
Hell, they sound much better in passive mode The bass matches perfectly and they highs are so much smoother and fuller sounding!!

[pyonc]

I tried my 4343's in full pasive mode again, after a few months running be amped.
Hell, they sound much better in passive mode The bass matches perfectly and they highs are so much smoother and fuller sounding!!

Really? What a pleasant surprise to know that! Many who bimaped 4343 hardly looked back at their passive mode days...
I guess the passive mode has restored the original sonical characteristics of 4343, which you can hardly achieve with biamp set-up.
Actually, The reason I stuck to 5234A crossover is with the stock 4343 cards, I could expect it to produce the original sonority of 4343 in full passive mode. I also swiched back to full passive mode recently to A/B with biamp mode, and I see biamped sound with 5234A is almost identical to the passive mode, but with more bass and highs.

[Goldjazz]

Currently I'm using Crown DC300A Series II for lows, and D-150A for highs in biamp mode.
Main reason is its great damping factor, which means tight bass.
Crown's damping factor is greater than 750 from DC to 400 Hz, according to its manual.

I see Accuphase P-300's damping factor, which I thinks seems to be below its mid-point. (0 to 50 range).

Dumping factor

20 (for 8-ohm load and 20Hz - 20kHz) or more

Ah yes damping factor. So I guess horizontal biamping with two different amps might be the ticket. One suited for LF with a high damping factor (> 100?). The crowns are pretty polarising from what ive read, ive not heard them. However the LF prowess of the dc300a seems unanimous. I wonder if the high damping factor, workhorse crown on the bottom and some refined class A accuphase action on top could be the answer...yikes that sentence sounds a little wrong

[Goldjazz]

I tried my 4343's in full pasive mode again, after a few months running be amped.
Hell, they sound much better in passive mode The bass matches perfectly and they highs are so much smoother and fuller sounding!!

By full passive you mean not biamped? Yep I hear ya. Most accounts ive read have preferred biamping but a few who have not. One of the repliers said something like just get 200 wpc and dont worry about biamping cause its hard to pull off. Thats probably the sensible thing to do. But im not sensible I enjoy tinkering, having a go. Ive gotta get another amp anyway so if its at least 200wpc I can compare biamped with and not.

I am a bit uncertain by power requirements for using a single amp and biamp. Jbl suggest 150wpc min in the 4343 spec (I assume for 1 amp) so im not sure what the power requirements for the LF and HF amps in a horozontally biamped system would need to be to cope with sudden spikes etc. Kendrick has plenty of videos of 4343s operting with a single amp powered at 110wpc (sansui mos aux1111,luxmans etc) and he obviously knows what he's doing.

[pyonc]

By full passive you mean not biamped? Yep I hear ya. Most accounts ive read have preferred biamping but a few who have not. One of the repliers said something like just get 200 wpc and dont worry about biamping cause its hard to pull off. Thats probably the sensible thing to do. But im not sensible I enjoy tinkering, having a go. Ive gotta get another amp anyway so if its at least 200wpc I can compare biamped with and not.

I am a bit uncertain by power requirements for using a single amp and biamp. Jbl suggest 150wpc min in the 4343 spec (I assume for 1 amp) so im not sure what the power requirements for the LF and HF amps in a horozontally biamped system would need to be to cope with sudden spikes etc. Kendrick has plenty of videos of 4343s operting with a single amp powered at 110wpc (sansui mos aux1111,luxmans etc) and he obviously knows what he's doing.

In my opinion, the greater the damping factor, the better for the woofers of 4343, as it means tighter bass.
Crown K1's damping factor is unbelievable 3000!

By the way, according to our forum guru 4313B, Crown amps were exclusively used with all 43xx monitors.
So, Crown, I think, is the right match at least with 4343, one of the best in this 43xx series.

[BMWCCA]

The crowns are pretty polarising from what ive read, ive not heard them. However the LF prowess of the dc300a seems unanimous. I wonder if the high damping factor, workhorse crown on the bottom and some refined class A accuphase action on top could be the answer...

I believe the questions concerning "musicality" of the Crown amps refers to the later (cheaper) pro models. I've not seen any complaints about the DC300A-II or PS400 running full range. Again, I've used the DC300A-II and D150A-II to bi-amp my 4345s and recently switched to PS400 and PS200 mostly for the turn-on delay feature. But then I found I preferred the sound as they seemed to have a bit more punch and a more open sound. Their sonic superiority over the D-series was also praised in Scott Fitlin's thread a long while back:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post329458

[martin2395]

By full passive you mean not biamped? Yep I hear ya. Most accounts ive read have preferred biamping but a few who have not. One of the repliers said something like just get 200 wpc and dont worry about biamping cause its hard to pull off. Thats probably the sensible thing to do. But im not sensible I enjoy tinkering, having a go. Ive gotta get another amp anyway so if its at least 200wpc I can compare biamped with and not.

I am a bit uncertain by power requirements for using a single amp and biamp. Jbl suggest 150wpc min in the 4343 spec (I assume for 1 amp) so im not sure what the power requirements for the LF and HF amps in a horozontally biamped system would need to be to cope with sudden spikes etc. Kendrick has plenty of videos of 4343s operting with a single amp powered at 110wpc (sansui mos aux1111,luxmans etc) and he obviously knows what he's doing.

Yes, not bi-amped. The biggest problem I had was that I couldn't get the bass to blend with the rest of the units. It sounded like a set of big monitors with 2 external subwoofers no matter what I did - flipping the polarity or changing matching the gain of both amps. Also, while my BSS crossover could be considered "high-end PA" it still has it's own sound signature.

I think that passive bi-amping with new networks with very good coils for the bass, maybe Jantzen or Mundorf and two healthy poweramps would give the best result on the 4343.

[wpod]

that really makes the difference. That being said, when I run my 4343a straight (not biamped) , I use a Krell KSA 200S Class A power amplier (200 wpc) and I can play it full volume and it sounds very clean. When I'm running my tube amplifiers straight, I sometimes use a pair of Harmon Kardon Citation II stereo power amps bridged to mono (120 watts per channel) Just for an experiment, I tried to run the Cit IIs full volume but the tube amps (120wpc) seem too be more powerful than the 200 wpc Solid state amps. Go figure. I get my best results biamping using the JBL M 552 electronic crossover with the Krell KSA 200s on the bottom and a single Citation in Stereo mode on the top. If you're a DIY kind of guy, I would look into building one of Nelson Pass's Class A amplifiers that are on the DIY Audio website. The Pass F5 Turbo V3 is good for over 100 watts of Class A amplification. Good Luck, Paul