Reforming capacitors?

[pyonc]

Capacitors do (imo) "change" their sound with use when installed in a new piece of equipment. You are dealing with something different. Regardless, there are 2 dozen models of new(er) preamplifiers that will sound better than this one for the same amount of money, or less. I appreciate the novelty of vintage gear, but if you don't have the ability to troubleshoot, repair, and upgrade gear yourself, it's a tough row to hoe. It is not uncommon for a part(s) failure to take out driver(s) in speakers.

Do you want to listen to it, or look at it?

I know there are great preamps within this price range, for example McIntosh C33.
Nonetheless, I just feel strongly attached to this particular vintage preamp.
That's my taste and preference, in other words. You know why? This is a superb preamp for jazz listeners like me. I've really confirmed it with my own ears. And that's why the famous jazz club Basie in Japan uses this particular preamp, along with all JBL vintage gear. Even JBL executives who visited this place were amazed at the incredible jazzy sound from this vintage gear, outwitting the modern Everest system.
This is the link: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=12206

[pyonc]

If you found it on the internet it must be true. I stand corrected.

I'm relieved we're on the same page now.

[pyonc]

yes, I have read all the comments by various people saying that every component requires a break in period. I can fully understand a mechanical component like a speaker, but when it comes to comments about cables requiring a break in period, well.......

Most of these people that use the term "break in" are only trying to justify the insane amounts of money they spent.

Just plug it in and play it.

Allan

Yea that's what I heard. Generally speaking, however, this 'break-in' seems to hold true for new gear or vintage in NOS that has sit idle like mine for many years...

[rusty jefferson]

I know there are great preamps within this price range, for example McIntosh C33.
Nonetheless, I just feel strongly attached to this particular vintage preamp.
That's my taste and preference, in other words. You know why? This is a superb preamp for jazz listeners like me. I've really confirmed it with my own ears. And that's why the famous jazz club Basie in Japan uses this particular preamp, along with all JBL vintage gear. Even JBL executives who visited this place were amazed at the incredible jazzy sound from this vintage gear, outwitting the modern Everest system.
This is the link: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=12206

I completely understand. You will need to find good, qualified technicians to help you maintain the gear if you can't do it, however. I'm kind of surprised there isn't someone on the forum doing such maintenance, repair. Good luck.

Nice link, by the way.

[martin2395]

I'm not so sure about reforming caps, to me a 40yo. cap is simply worn/dried out and if there is a good modern subsitiute I'd replace them.

[pyonc]

I'm pleasantly surprised to find an eminent audio critic's review on the need for break-in of even the top of the line preamp like AR Ref. 40 for fuller sound. AR Ref. 40 is $24,995 at the time of his review back in 2010.
This is from an excerpt of Mr. Jonathan Valin's review of Audio Research 40th Anniv. Ref. Preamp, printed Dec. 30, 2010 The Absolute Sound:

Before I get to these sonic wonders, let’s look at what ARC hath wrought inside the Ref 40’s two chassis. (I’m reminded of the scene in Monkey Business, where, as Chico launches into the obligatory novelty piano number, Groucho turns to the camera and says to the audience: “I gotta stay here, but why don’t you folks go out to the lobby and catch a smoke?” If you feel that way about reviewers parroting Web site specs and designer propaganda ad nauseum, why don’t you go catch a smoke and return in a paragraph or three?).

The first things you will notice when you pop the lid on the preamp section of the Ref 40 to install the tubes are (as ARC correctly notes) the four humongous proprietary Teflon coupling caps on the left side of the chassis (the Teflon bypass caps are mounted on the bottom of the main board, out of sight). Each of these coupling caps weighs more than two pounds! Which (in concert with the added capacitance in the beefed-up dual-mono power supply) is a large part of the reason why the Anniversary Edition preamp has so much more speed and clout than any previous ARC linestage (and a large part of the reason why this preamp takes so very long—at least 400 to 500 hours—to break in)...

[Allanvh5150]

Here is the thing. RE Forming is a tern used for electrolytic caps to keep their electrolyte correct. They are happy with voltage on them, until they get old of course and then failure will occur.

All other caps use some sort of insulating material, polyester, mica, teflon etc, as such, they can not be reformed.

That old preamp pictured, has electro's all over the place. They were used because they were cheap.

Yes, they will reform but sooner or later they can fail and cause much bigger problems. Other types of caps will outlast all of us.

In general, if all signal caps are changed to some type of poly cap and all power supply caps are renewed, your preamps will sound better and will last many more years.

The changes that take place in a capacitor when it is first powered, take place within hours. Very little happens after that. If anyone can do blind tests and prove otherwise, they are very special indeed.

As someone else said, if you want a museum piece, leave it as it is and don't use it. Otherwise, upgrade it and play it or, play it as it is and hope for the best.

Allan.

p.s. Break in and re forming are totally different things.

[hjames]

2 amps of known old vintage -highly recommend you have a trusted local tech look them over to confirm proper function.
If you want them calibrated to have matching spec, that is a further task ... and further $$$ ...

If you are fussy about performance, you really need to do it right, and that can be expensive.

[Ian Mackenzie]

It would be interesting to obtain your comments after replacing the power supply capacitors with new quality components.


The service life of electrolytic capacitors is around 20 years.

[pyonc]

p.s. Break in and re forming are totally different things.

Thanks again for your comments.
By the way, I thought 'reform' is an audiophile term for 'break-in'.
In other words, 'reform' for vintage gear and 'break-in' for new.

[Allanvh5150]

Hi,

here is a piece I found that will hopefully tell you what re forming is all about.

"The electrolytic capacitor is a critical part of both old and modern electronic equipment and it must be used correctly in order to get the longest and safest operational life and is particularly important with high voltage versions of these components. Electrolytic capacitors rely on a chemical process to provide the insulator between the two metal plates and this process can degrade over a period of years if the capacitor has not had power applied. The result is that the working voltage of any electrolytic capacitors in equipment gradually falls. If full power is applied to long unused equipment then the electrolytic capacitors can pass excessive amounts of current that could cause a catastrophic failure to the entire equipment and a potential fire hazard to surrounding property."

And here is the full article.

http://www.qsl.net/g3oou/reform.html

Cheers, Allan.

[pyonc]

Hi,

here is a piece I found that will hopefully tell you what re forming is all about.

"The electrolytic capacitor is a critical part of both old and modern electronic equipment and it must be used correctly in order to get the longest and safest operational life and is particularly important with high voltage versions of these components. Electrolytic capacitors rely on a chemical process to provide the insulator between the two metal plates and this process can degrade over a period of years if the capacitor has not had power applied. The result is that the working voltage of any electrolytic capacitors in equipment gradually falls. If full power is applied to long unused equipment then the electrolytic capacitors can pass excessive amounts of current that could cause a catastrophic failure to the entire equipment and a potential fire hazard to surrounding property."

And here is the full article.

http://www.qsl.net/g3oou/reform.html

Cheers, Allan.

Much appreciated!