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Thread: Fix this problem, please!!!

  1. #1
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Fix this problem, please!!!

    Hi

    Is it possible to get mid/high and low reversed due to wrong hook-up?
    That's what's happened to my 4343.
    With 5234A with 4343 cards, which I use for the first time,
    I've biamped and listened to music for about an hour this morning, but something very strange happened.
    the sound of mid/high freq. was coming from woofers(2231A),
    and the low freq. sound from mid-range (2121) and high freq. drivers of the left speaker !!!
    On closer examination of the connection on the back,9
    I found I didn't connect the cables correctly, and found one of the cables supposed to go into low connected to high, along with the other one to low.
    So, I took them out and made the correct connection.
    But from the left speaker, I still continue to hear from mid-range/ high drivers what's supposed to come from woofers. Right speaker sounds all right.
    I changed the crossover to Ashly, and found the same problem with the left speaker.
    Is there any way for me to get this reversed frequencies of mid/high and low back to its original condition?
    Do you think there is a permanent damage to the relevant circuits due to this wrong connection?
    Please help me out, friends! Thanks much in advance for your solution.

  2. #2
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    It sounds to me like you have some wires incorrect within your speaker cabinet(s).

    I say you need to rewire/create a rear speaker panel with a 4 banana connectors - 2 pairs.
    The lower pair ( + - ) should go directly to your woofer (Low Freq).
    The upper pair (+ - ) should go to your internal high split network (mid-bass, horn, super-tweeter) .

    If you know the cabinet is wired in this fashion, there is no way to get it wrong.
    Its not magic, just an engineering problem to be solved.

    (get a dual Banana plug and use that to determine spacing so you can use dual plugs in the future)

    Red bananas on left - internally, wire red banana to red (+) on the woofer, black to black (-).
    You can reverse the woofer connection externally by flipping the pair if your speaker needs that.


    Name:  RearPanel.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyonc View Post
    Hi

    Is it possible to get mid/high and low reversed due to wrong hook-up?
    That's what's happened to my 4343.
    With 5234A with 4343 cards, which I use for the first time,
    I've biamped and listened to music for about an hour this morning, but something very strange happened.
    I heard mid/high freq. from woofers(2231A),
    and low freq. from mid-range cone(2121) /UF from the left speaker !!!
    On closer examination of the connection on the back,9
    I found I didn't connect the cables correctly, and found one of the cables supposed to go into low connected to high, along with the other one to low.
    So, I took them out and made the correct connection.
    But from the left speaker, I still continue to hear from mid-range cone what's supposed to come from woofers. Right speaker sounds all right.
    I changed the crossover to Ashly, and found the same problem with the left speaker.
    Is there any way for me to get this reversed frequencies of mid/high and low back to its original condition?
    Do you think there is a permanent damage to the relevant circuits due to this wrong connection?
    Please help me out, friends! Thanks much in advance for your solution.
    2ch: Oppo, JoLida 502CRC, JBL L212, 18ti,240ti; Heath AS101, Von Schweikert VR4
    7.1: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460

  3. #3
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    It sounds to me like you have some wires incorrect within your speaker cabinet(s).

    I say you need to rewire your rear speaker panel with a 4 banana connectors - 2 pairs.
    The lower pair ( + - ) should go directly to your woofer (Low Freq).
    The upper pair (+ - ) should go to your internal high split network (mid-bass, horn, super-tweeter) .

    If you know the cabinet is wired in this fashion, there is no way to get it wrong.

    (get a dual Banana plug and use that to determine spacing so you can use dual plugs in the future)

    Red bananas on left - internally, wire red banana to red (+) on the woofer, black to black (-).
    You can reverse the woofer connection externally by flipping the pair if your speaker needs that.


    Name:  RearPanel.jpg
Views: 200
Size:  50.3 KB
    Thanks. Well, the issue here is the wrong hook-up of cables between the crossover (5234A) and amplifiers, which I made by mistake this morning.
    (I do not see problem with the back speaker cables, wired correctly, with the switch turned to external crossover.)
    As I explained, one pair of the cables from the crossover hooked into wrong inputs of amplifiers.
    In other words,
    low phone jack hooked into high and high one to low.
    I'm just at a loss how to understand this strange thing: low sound from mid and high range
    drivers and high sound from woofers! Any idea and solution?
    Also, any possibility of damage to internal circuit as a result of this initial wrong hook-up?

  4. #4
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    If you KNOW the wires inside the speaker cabinet are correct, then it has to be external wiring.

    Low Freq signal from electronic crossover to low amp to low F connector pair on speaker.
    Hi Freq signal from electronic crossover to High amp to high F connector pair on speaker.
    If you need to, label your wires and label your connectors to be sure you get it right.

    2 different crossovers acting the same way imply a problem that is not crossover related.

    Again, it is not magic, just an engineering problem.

    Set it up with the Ashly (a known good device) and correct your external wiring until it's working correctly.
    Then swap in the JBL/UREI 5234A - since it has swappable cards, internal user errors are possible.
    A previous owner could have gotten something wrong internally on the 5234A - such things happen.

    Internal damage to speaker? How hard did you crank it -
    if you did not play too loud, its probably not a problem.



    Quote Originally Posted by pyonc View Post
    Thanks. Well, the issue here is the wrong hook-up of cables between the crossover (5234A) and amplifiers, which I made by mistake this morning.
    (I do not see problem with the back speaker cables, wired correctly, with the switch turned to external crossover.)
    As I explained, one pair of the cables from the crossover hooked into wrong inputs of amplifiers.
    In other words,
    low phone jack hooked into high and high one to low.
    I'm just at a loss how to understand this strange thing: low sound from mid and high range
    drivers and high sound from woofers! Any idea and solution?
    Also, any possibility of damage to internal circuit as a result of this initial wrong hook-up?
    2ch: Oppo, JoLida 502CRC, JBL L212, 18ti,240ti; Heath AS101, Von Schweikert VR4
    7.1: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460

  5. #5
    Senior Member Odd's Avatar
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    Wiring
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  6. #6
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    If you KNOW the wires inside the speaker cabinet are correct, then it has to be external wiring.

    Low Freq signal from electronic crossover to low amp to low F connector pair on speaker.
    Hi Freq signal from electronic crossover to High amp to high F connector pair on speaker.
    If you need to, label your wires and label your connectors to be sure you get it right.

    2 different crossovers acting the same way imply a problem that is not crossover related.

    Again, it is not magic, just an engineering problem.

    Set it up with the Ashly (a known good device) and correct your external wiring until it's working correctly.
    Then swap in the JBL/UREI 5234A - since it has swappable cards, internal user errors are possible.
    A previous owner could have gotten something wrong internally on the 5234A - such things happen.

    Internal damage to speaker? How hard did you crank it -
    if you did not play too loud, its probably not a problem.
    Thanks agian. I'll recheck the wiring and the set-up when I get back home this evening..

  7. #7
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd View Post
    Wiring
    Thanks much for this diagram on biamp. Let me double check the wiring.

  8. #8
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyonc View Post
    Thanks much for this diagram on biamp.
    As I explained, I made the initial mistake of wrong cable connection between the 5234A and amps for the left speaker.

    Now with the correct hook-up, if I still continue to have this problem, what could be the problems and the solution?
    What I want to know most at this point is with this continued LOW sound from mid/high-range drivers and HIGH from woofers,
    the internal circuit on this frequency characteristics might have been damaged. If not, what's the solution to correcting this reversal of low and high?
    Any idea?
    There is no solution without knowing what the problem is.

    Again, it is not magic, it is engineering.
    If it worked right before, you will not suddenly have High and Low feeds swapped inside the speaker.

    You start by hooking up the Ashly and make sure it is working correctly.

    You have an active crossover
    You have wires from the crossover to your amp(s)
    You have wires from the amp(s) to the speaker(s)
    You have a speaker with a low input, and a high input.

    Check and verify each stage to be sure it is right.
    2ch: Oppo, JoLida 502CRC, JBL L212, 18ti,240ti; Heath AS101, Von Schweikert VR4
    7.1: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460

  9. #9
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Again, it is not magic, it is engineering.
    If it worked right before, you will not suddenly have High and Low feeds swapped inside the speaker.
    I'm much relieved to hear that, hjames! Really hope so.

  10. #10
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Problem solved, and I'm happy now.

    Well, finally I learned it the hard way by making mistakes today.
    As you guys pointed out, the problem was the wrong speaker connections on the back, not wrong hook-up between crossover and the amps.
    4343 has two sets of binding posts on the back cabinet: the lower posts for LOW (300Hz), the upper for HIGH, when you bi-amp.
    But upon closer look, I found the cables connected wrongly between the posts and the amp inputs.
    Looks like I mixed them while I tried different speaker cables recently.
    As a result, however correct the cable connection between crossover and the amps,
    I heard this strange reversal of LOW and HIGH sound.
    Anyway, thanks so much for your waking me up to the importance of correct wiring once again!

  11. #11
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Glad its all sorted out for you now!
    Sleep at peace tonight ...

    Quote Originally Posted by pyonc View Post
    Problem solved, and I'm happy now.

    Well, finally I learned it the hard way by making mistakes today.
    As you guys pointed out, the problem was the wrong speaker connections on the back, not wrong hook-up between crossover and the amps.
    4343 has two sets of binding posts on the back cabinet: the lower posts for LOW (300Hz), the upper for HIGH, when you bi-amp.
    But upon closer look, I found the cables connected wrongly between the posts and the amp inputs.
    Looks like I mixed them while I tried different speaker cables recently.
    As a result, however correct the cable connection between crossover and the amps,
    I heard this strange reversal of LOW and HIGH sound.
    Anyway, thanks so much for your waking me up to the importance of correct wiring once again!
    2ch: Oppo, JoLida 502CRC, JBL L212, 18ti,240ti; Heath AS101, Von Schweikert VR4
    7.1: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460

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