Budget woofer system with Horn

[Lee in Montreal]

If I were you, I would stick to a pair of 816. You will have horns working down to 180Hz. Then mid bass down to 60-80Hz from the 816. Which you can complement with your subs.

Also, the woofer in the 816 is about 2" deep and can easily be physically aligned with the compressor in your Mantarays, with the Mantarays' face portruding by probably only 9"-12"

It makes way more sense to go with those 816. I won't add anymore to the discussion.

Lee

[gwho]

Lee in Montreal

Could you please elaborate a little further. Are there significant benefits sonically in using the horn enclosure vs the vented system. Would the 816 be better match in efficiency? Or is it just that you want to have a horn with a horn.

I appreciate any input as I am new to all of this. I am in no rush but am trying to put together something that will work. I'd like a good starting point and then improve on that. The only reason I looked for the 8256 cabinets is that it is the way Altec built the A6 and A10 in the brochure from the archives.

If I bought the bought the 816 cabinets with the 8256's (allowing me the option to try both) would the 3156 woofers work in the 816? Or, would the 816 be much better with the JBL 2226 as this is a known quantity.

Regards,
gwho

[Lee in Montreal]

All your answers are already in this thread. I also suggest that you experiment. It's called trial and error. Have fun.

Lee

[gwho]

Thanks I am having a blast.

[more10]

I believe I've worked out a deal to purchase a pair of 8256 boxes with 3156 drivers. I have to drive out of state to pick them up but will make a weekend out of it. The 816 boxes are located in the same area. Is there any value in using a 3156 in the 816 box (they measure 30x26x22) over the 8256 box because I could pick them up at the same time. Any thoughts?

I would go that far for the 816, not the 8256.

816A spec sheet

Spec sheet says 416-8A or 421A or 515B. Use your money on 4 of these drivers instead of the 8256. And get all four 816 just to be able to compare how much extra punch you get from stacked horns.

[more10]

Also, the woofer in the 816 is about 2" deep and can easily be physically aligned with the compressor in your Mantarays, with the Mantarays' face portruding by probably only 9"-12"

This is a very good point.

[more10]

Horns have a more dynamic sound. Prefferably you want horns all the way down. But bass horns are big! So you shift from horns to ported designs somewhere in midrange. The 816 will sound better in the region above 200 Hz.

[gwho]

This gives me a much better understanding of the horn vs vented design. Thank you for the help. The deal did not work out for the 816 boxes. I did pick up a pair of the 8256's. I am determined to find a horn locally to compare against the 8256. I am also looking at what I believe is a folded horn. It is an old Peavey FH-1. I might get this to try also.

Regards,
gwho

[Eaulive]

Nice setup Lee... do you miss your 4520s?
I know the wife doesn't
How are the Yammies?

Gwho - Yup. Slot must remain vertical for optimal dispersion.

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/q...t/CIMG6768.jpg

If space is a limitation, you can make a cabinet with one single 15" driver. I have the JBL "equivalent" of your Mantaray and use it for home duty with a single JBL 2226 in a bass reflex enclosure. The 2226 works fine down to 40Hz. I have an 18" 2245 for infrabass. Very often I don't even power the 18" driver. For best integration I also have a digital crossover and multiple amps. I ended up with a very simple two-way system.

To reduce the visual impact, you can make your cabinet narrow, yet deep. You need depth anyway as your Mataray will most likely require 36" depth. Build a 36" deep x 18" wide x 24" tall cabinet. Looking from the front, it will look "tiny" at 18" wide x 24" tall. The combined height of the bass cabinet and Mantaray will be no more than 48". What's the Mantaray width?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...psdf7728b2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ps56463075.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...psb8c05d3b.jpg

[Lee in Montreal]

Nice setup Lee... do you miss your 4520s?
I know the wife doesn't
How are the Yammies?

I miss the 4520, and bass horns in general. Bass reflex is fine, but it lacks the dynamic of a bass horn. And my basement is too small to fit a pair of Berthas and Levans. ;-) and the Yamies keep on pumping. I used the PC2002 bridged into 700w to feed the 2245 sub. I will replace the 2226 by a pair of 2245 or maybe recone them as 2240. Baskets are 2245 and ready to accept a cone kit. Fresh and clean.

[gwho]

This is what I picked up. I hooked up the speakers for a basic test using an old analog electronic crossover (Rane AC22). I have to admit that the Altec sounds significantly different than what I am used to (electrostats). To my ears the horn sound very edgy (almost harsh). I was playing them through solid state equipment I have in the garage (acoustics are not first rate). Of note, the high frequencies (especially cymbals) did not sound accurate (smeared and bright from about 10 feet). Vocals sounded fantastic. How do I tell if there are issues with the diaphragm? One of them is dead as it measures an open circuit. I will likely replace them (any specific one I should pick up?). Is it worthwhile recapping the 1285 crossover or should I stick with electronic crossovers. I also picked up a pair of Peavey FH-1 that were local to try them out since I was unable to get the 816. This is a folded mid-bass horn of which there are a lot of write ups on the web (pros/cons) but I thought it would be worthwhile to test them to see what they sound like (they are supposed to be similar to a Klipsch Belle). They are more efficient than the 8256.

Are there any upgrades that can be performed on the 8256 to improve them?

Regards,
gwho

[hjames]

Everything I ever heard about ALTECS was they were efficient and pretty unforgiving about noisy SS gear.
I'm not sure feeding your HF audio through the RANE crossover is helpful - I think a passive xover is a better approach.

This is what I picked up. I hooked up the speakers for a basic test using an old analog electronic crossover (Rane AC22). I have to admit that the Altec sounds significantly different than what I am used to (electrostats). To my ears the horn sound very edgy (almost harsh). I was playing them through solid state equipment I have in the garage (acoustics are not first rate). Of note, the high frequencies (especially cymbals) did not sound accurate (smeared and bright from about 10 feet). Vocals sounded fantastic. How do I tell if there are issues with the diaphragm? One of them is dead as it measures an open circuit. I will likely replace them (any specific one I should pick up?). Is it worthwhile recapping the 1285 crossover or should I stick with electronic crossovers. I also picked up a pair of Peavey FH-1 that were local to try them out since I was unable to get the 816. This is a folded mid-bass horn of which there are a lot of write ups on the web (pros/cons) but I thought it would be worthwhile to test them to see what they sound like (they are supposed to be similar to a Klipsch Belle). They are more efficient than the 8256.

Are there any upgrades that can be performed on the 8256 to improve them?

Regards,
gwho

[more10]

One of them is dead as it measures an open circuit. I will likely replace them (any specific one I should pick up?).

Replacement diaphragms from GPA (Great Plains Audio) on ebay. You will have to read the manual in order to pick the right diaphragm :-)

[more10]

The Rane filter is not world class. Get a DBX. You will also need to build passive eq in order to harness the horns. Or get a digital filter with PEQs. Or take your chanses with the passive crossover.

[gwho]

I realize that what I put together is a cluge. I was anxious to hear what they sound like since I have almost no listening experience with horn speakers. I know a lot of what I heard could be the room or the electronics but some of it has to be the speakers. As I said they did sound kind of harsh to me. I'm sure the tube amp would tame some of that. Long-term I was going to drive the speakers with a Rogue Magnum tube amplifier once I get everything together. I will likely recap the passive crossover if I go this route. I also have a Behringer DCX2496 and DEQ2496 that I can use as a crossover and room eq should I want to biamp.

I could not find anything on the 8256 vented box nor how to improve it. I did find one general article stating that placing filler in the box would help.

As usual thank you for the input.

Regards,
gwho