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  1. #1
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Music of Outstanding Merit

    Sometime in the past I may have suggested that someone create a thread with this purpose. The What's Playing Now thread is probably the most popular thread here, but I seem to remember its original intent being to present music of unusual merit. What it has become is wonderful, but I would still like to see a thread to post truly outstanding music on.

    This will become whatever it becomes, but the concept I had in mind is to not misuse "great" or "genius" and to reserve this space for music that has more than nostalgia or danceability, or catchy lyrics or licks going for it. I do not expect there to be any concensus whatsoever about what qualifies, so "that sucks" commentary has no useful place here. Perhaps there is a place for music being judged by its quotient of social commentary, but it is the music itself I am thinking of, not so much the lyrics alone. Recording quality could be considered, but that is actually "Recordings of outstanding merit," not Music of Outstanding Merit if you get my drift. We don't judge Bach on how well the performance was recorded.

    I will be so presumptuous as to propose an entry, Sandy Denny, No More Sad Refrains: The Anthology. This is an excellent collection of her work. She was in possession of the dual gifts of a great voice, often considered the best folk voice in English since World War II; plus she is also in the running for being the best folk songwriter in the same period. Richard Thompson considers her to rate as the best, enough said. She wrote most of the selections here, but her covers were equally inspired in execution. Her rendition of Banks Of The Nile is usually cited as the best cover of traditional material in English in quite some time, perhaps in the recorded era.

    She died at the age of thirty-one after an accidental fall, but her light shone so brightly her body of work is considerable in impact. This collection presents it well. Even her last release, criminally overproduced by her husband, is worth a listen if you like this sort of music. I am not a man of means, but I parted with some treasure to own a Japanese mastering of this two disc set.

    I am including the second photo because a great many Americans know her solely from being the only guest vocalist to ever record with the group she is pictured sitting with. And to quote (from the liner notes) the vocalist on her right: "My favorite singer out of all the British girls that ever were."

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    RIP 2021 SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Interesting idea Clarke

    I can think of not much pop musik that fits your criteria ..(except Julie London's "Cry me a River") and any that I can come up with are already all time stone greats

    ie: Vivaldi - Le quattro stagioni https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fo...sons_(Vivaldi)

    or LVB - Ode to Joy (from the 9th)

    I'd almost like to propose ...Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed & Groffe's - Grand Canyon Suite.

    but of course these don't really display the dynamics that most purchase their JBL's for










    oh yeah ,,, can't forget Iron Butterfly "Inna Godda da Vida"
    (17 minute version) and "The Iron Butterfly THEME" is like the quintessential 60's psychedelic tune. Almost defined the era in one cut.
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    Senior Member DavidF's Avatar
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    Janis Ian

    I'll throw one in to support the idea.

    The first idea that came to mind was Janis Ian exemplified by her 1993 album Breaking Silence. Her writing style has always been evocative and at the same time engaging. Tough subjects with her soft voice makes for an interesting mix. Hardly mainstream, though, which has limited her overall appeal in terms of outright sales.

    Breaking Silence happens to be a gem of a recording, as well. Give a listen if you haven't heard it already.

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    I have some Fairport Convention/Fotheringay vinyls I bought in the seventies. At the time I had to pretty much bury them in the stacks as they were not the usual rotation candidates for frat parties. Ditto Pentangle albums. Highly musical but hardly middle-of-the-road material.
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    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Outstanding; I was not sure of a single reply. It is true that not a lot of popular music qualifies as great music. Popular music tends to be catchier than deeply moving, danceable, slight enough to multitask to without missing anything (dancing, working and socializing are common examples - frat parties indeed) and, as Corky Siegal said, to succeed almost requires that its content be very, very, very "available." Popular music in the modern era is also dominated by music with lyrics, often in the service of the content being so easy and simple to take in. How much pop radio play does instrumental music get?

    All that said, deeply moving content in music does not exclude vocals and lyrics. It's just that the vast majority of the demand for it has been, and is increasingly, driven by non musical content. Stories, social commentary, lifestyle and attitude exposition mostly. And there is usually that danceability factor as well. When Rock n Roll came out the "serious" concert listeners were appalled by the small level of actual musical content. Those same disappointed listeners who have lived to see the Rap era might find themselves longing for Classic Rock. If the trend continues, I am having a failure of imagination re: what will follow what we have at present. Since it is a seriously diminishing pool of people who even aspire to single task listening to music, I assume listeners like us are teetering on the brink of extinction. But Jazz, Blues and the concert halls have not had great music of quality all to themselves for the past fifty years. There is some brilliant music that has managed to be heard by a mass audience. To be fair, in all the history of popular Jazz 90% of it was not very good. Pop music, 99%? I refuse to judge what the actual numbers are, but the great music does tend to stand out to those who bother to hear it, doesn't it? Fairport Convention and even Fotheringay were pop music of sorts, but their listener base at the time was tiny compared to the Top of the Pops bands. In the liner notes for the Remastered 2002 release of Fairport's Unhalfbricking, band member Ashley Hutchings writes that a French language version of Dylan's If You Gotta Go, Go Now was their only Top of the Pops appearance. This is all why the Led Zeppelin mention. The LZ audience dwarfed that of Sandy's bands. So it has always been. But pop musical gold does exist. Just don't expect me to take Kanye West serious musically when I have heard John Coltrane. I do personally think a case could be made for some of Led Zeppelin's work to be outstanding music. They were special.

    Still, I am reminded of what every record contest judge said in the old days of American Bandstand. "You can understand the lyrics, it has a great beat and you can dance to it. I give it a ninety-five." Some things seem to never change.

    I know what the stated purpose of the Music forum is, but I am trying to sneak a pure music thread in here, regardless of whether they cater to large JBL's core virtues or not.

    I need to check out the Janis Ian CD. I confess I had not kept up with her music. I was saddened to hear of her death not all that long ago. Iron Butterfly, there may be more truth there than you know. A year or three ago Public TV had a fundraiser broadcast of Sixties era rockers. The one band that was still playing as well or better with the original members was Iron Butterfly.
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    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Thank you SO much for the Music of Outstanding merit ... More great music to look for!
    And yes, please check out "Breaking Silence" ... it is beautifully recorded and fine music as well.
    And one minor correction - Janis Ian is not dead yet!

    Some of the members of iron Butterfly have passed on - Wiki says:

    Former guitarist Larry "Rhino" Reinhardt died on January 2, 2012, at the age of 63, due to cirrhosis of the liver.
    Bassist Lee Dorman, who had a history of heart trouble, died on December 21, 2012, at the age of 70.
    Both Reinhardt and Dorman were also founding members of Captain Beyond,
    along with former Deep Purple vocalist Rod Evans and drummer Bobby Caldwell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    I need to check out the Janis Ian CD. I comfess I had not kept up with her music. I was saddened to hear of her death not all that long ago. Iron Butterfly, there may be more truth there than you know. A year or three ago Public TV had a fundraiser broadcast of Sixties era rockers. The one band that was still playing as well or better with the original members was Iron Butterfly.
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    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    I am happily corrected that Janis is still with us. The Public TV Iron Butterfly appearance was probably soemwhere in 2009 to 2011, I have lost track, but was when they were all or nearly all still able to breathe.

    The example I forgot to recount about how even critics mess up hearing music is about Roxy Music. The British press felt their album Avalon to be their weakest by far, Brian Ferry running the show in the service of the music. Of course it was musically brilliant and a seminal step in recording/producing quality in the service of getting the music across, but all they cared about was the lyrics. They went on about how the record was about nothing. Critics tend to show up to artist interviews with lyric sheets in hand. I recall some musician, it might have been the straight talking Chrissie Hynde, telling one such scribe he should actually take the round black thing with the hole and play it sometime.
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    Senior Member Krunchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Thank you SO much for the Music of Outstanding merit ... More great music to look for!
    A hearty +1 & Amen to that. Been making my way through the thread & already have a few of these in my amazon bin.

    Continuing in the spirit of the thread.......Warren Zevon, more than just werewolves of London, till recently I did non know how incredible this guy was. His album Genius is a blast.
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    This thread is great. Gives me ideas of new music to buy and enjoy. I agree completely about lack of option in new music. But I think there are a few. I do think Norah Jones has an amazing voice. But each person has there different likes and dislikes.


    Nick

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    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Karan Casey

    Eva Cassidy is a worthy pick indeed. I can think of one current singer that rivals her in quality, while sounding completely different. Karan Casey is Irish and sings in both English and Irish. Last year the concert that got away was a student union appearance in Madison, Wisconsin. I simply could not make it to a duo tour of Karan and the brilliant guitarist John Doyle. These two often perform together, I have gathered. I hope so. Karan has a very Irish voice, mid to high in range and very sweet, but with a vibrato that Edith Piaf would have wished she had - less strident and more lilting, as is the Gaelic manner. By comparison Piaf was a belter. I personally like contraltos much better than sopranos and a lot better than altos, but I can't take any exception to Karan's singing. Her singing voice has unusual depth of character - as if you could hear her talking in there. It is not achingly pure as most diva voices are. I like to hear singers this good with bare minimum accompaniment, another reason Dual is a favorite. Whatever you may think of Karan's voice, I feel the duo of she and Doyle makes music of outstanding merit. You can bet I will order the CD. The audio snippets on Amazon have me reaching for my wallet. I swear Doyle plays like an Irishman raised listening to John Fahey. Here is a link to a YouTube audio of the duo's CD's title song. This CD is not available on Rhapsody but everything else of hers is.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03GUV_eTFt4

    In the past I have linked to this audio of Karan. Here it is again. The song is from her The Winds Begin To Sing CD. Sorry to make both examples in English, she is transcendentally hypnotic in Irish. She is considered a Celtic artist, as is Doyle, but the larger audience is into English.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXyRPEHCLNQ

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    My premature announcement of Janis Ian's demise was a confusion with Laura Nyro. I get confused a lot, I am old. By the way, when Sandy Bull was starting out my sister and I used to get off big time on his take on "Memphis" as well as "Blend." Great stuff.
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    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    The Who and Bowie !

    BOWIE ,I believe to be the most influential artist in the latter part of the 20th century . Never a afraid to kick down doors ,he worked with funk to punk and classical artists. He threw everything into the pot and from it served to inspire new breeds with new sounds .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdlWUQedW9I




    and another fave …. thanks to HP for taking me back to this at the German get togethers

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Y64dpZGnE

    great thread Clarke !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post

    ...This will become whatever it becomes, but the concept I had in mind is to not misuse "great" or "genius" and to reserve this space for music that has more than nostalgia or danceability, or catchy lyrics or licks going for it. I do not expect there to be any concensus whatsoever about what qualifies, so "that sucks" commentary has no useful place here. Perhaps there is a place for music being judged by its quotient of social commentary, but it is the music itself I am thinking of, not so much the lyrics alone. Recording quality could be considered, but that is actually "Recordings of outstanding merit," not Music of Outstanding Merit if you get my drift. We don't judge Bach on how well the performance was recorded. .....

    ]
    In keeping with the spirit of the thread, I would recommend trying Sandy Bull's "Fantasias for Guitar and Banjo." That is the 1963 debut recording by Bull. Side 1, is a 20 minute duo improvisation called "Blend", with just guitar (Bull) and drummer Billy Higgins. Stunning performance, the likes of which are rarely caught on tape. Not the best recording quality, but that's not the point, I suppose. The record was finally transferred to digital a few year ago, I believe, just before he died. Here's an image of the cd cover:

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    Senior Member tomt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post

    Sandy Denny
    the person ms. denny replaced in fairport is quite a vocalist as well.


    this was supposedly done in robt. fripps basement, on a reel to reel -





    with fairport -





    still singing -

    http://judydyble.com/



    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    song sung in breton - (the language as well as the place)





    included in a movie soundtrack by hans zimmer.



    then remixed by some guy, with some bass added for the young at heart.



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    Frank Zappa's "Bolero"

    not the most challenging piece of music from Ravel, but Zappa adds some life to it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2hiDYE5Qdw

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    Jack Dejohnette New Directions

    I've been a long time fan of Jack Dejohnette as a drummer, composer and ensemble leader. I just found this album recently in a used record store. Here is one of the cuts. In this incarnation of his ensemble, he is joined by one of my favorite trumpeters, Lester Bowie. Outstanding!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bJg...eGhtGn5pfsfiCl

    https://ecmreviews.com/2011/04/12/new-directions/


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    Sometime in the past I may have suggested that someone create a thread with this purpose. The What's Playing Now thread is probably the most popular thread here, but I seem to remember its original intent being to present music of unusual merit. What it has become is wonderful, but I would still like to see a thread to post truly outstanding music on.

    This will become whatever it becomes, but the concept I had in mind is to not misuse "great" or "genius" and to reserve this space for music that has more than nostalgia or danceability, or catchy lyrics or licks going for it. I do not expect there to be any concensus whatsoever about what qualifies, so "that sucks" commentary has no useful place here. Perhaps there is a place for music being judged by its quotient of social commentary, but it is the music itself I am thinking of, not so much the lyrics alone. Recording quality could be considered, but that is actually "Recordings of outstanding merit," not Music of Outstanding Merit if you get my drift. We don't judge Bach on how well the performance was recorded....
    I don't want to step on Clark's toes as this isn't my thread, but it started out really strong and has recently started to look like the What's Playing Now thread? Perhaps some refocus on Outstanding Merit? Context of why it's outstanding? Anyway, as you were.

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