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Thread: Wood Oil Finish, safe sand?

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    Wood Oil Finish, safe sand?

    Hi,

    I see that the finish on the JBLs is written in the manuals as "oiled walnut", and it is obviously a veneer. I am wondering if it is safe to sand and refinish these. I mean if they have a lead based finish on them, this might not be a good idea and it might be better to take it to a pro. Would love to hear back on this issue.

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    Senior Member LRBacon's Avatar
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    JBL's Oiled Walnut Formula

    Quote Originally Posted by archiekaras View Post
    Hi,

    I see that the finish on the JBLs is written in the manuals as "oiled walnut", and it is obviously a veneer. I am wondering if it is safe to sand and refinish these. I mean if they have a lead based finish on them, this might not be a good idea and it might be better to take it to a pro. Would love to hear back on this issue.
    Most of the older oiled walnut finishes are hand finished and oiled with the formula in the thread link below:


    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...oil+turpentine

    Larry
    Last edited by LRBacon; 12-23-2013 at 10:54 AM. Reason: add additional info

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    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...ish/page02.jpg

    ... as to whether it's "safe" or not, I'd suggest reading some references that include precautions for -any- kind of wood/furniture refinishing. It is your responsibility to understand the need for these precautions.

    That said, on a relative scale of refinishing operations, this is pretty "safe"

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    Senior Member LRBacon's Avatar
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    No lead in either boiled linseed oil or pure gum turpentine. You don't want to leave your used rags laying around inside. Linseed oil is known for spontaneous combustion when left out in the open. I have left the rags I use outside on a rack and have not had any problems with them catching fire.

    Larry

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    Senior Member rdgrimes's Avatar
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    Personally I refuse to use the linseed/turpentine cocktail cause it just stinks too much and is highly flammable. The only issue with sanding the walnut veneer is if someone has previously used varnish or wax on it, which tends to gum up a lot of sandpaper. Just be aware you only have just so much veneer on there, about 1/8".

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
    Personally I refuse to use the linseed/turpentine cocktail cause it just stinks too much and is highly flammable. The only issue with sanding the walnut veneer is if someone has previously used varnish or wax on it, which tends to gum up a lot of sandpaper. Just be aware you only have just so much veneer on there, about 1/8".
    Actually, the walnut veneer is only 1/32 inch thick (.031). After sanding, you're better off applying a Watco brand Danish oil finish than mixing your own cocktail of oils. I use the Watco medium walnut for most of my speakers. The Watco dark walnut is fine if you want a darker finish, but it's gummier to apply. The JBL formula for the oil finish is designed to be cheap and easy to apply for mass production.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LRBacon View Post
    No lead in either boiled linseed oil or pure gum turpentine. You don't want to leave your used rags laying around inside. Linseed oil is known for spontaneous combustion when left out in the open. I have left the rags I use outside on a rack and have not had any problems with them catching fire.

    Larry
    Not sure, they seem to use a drying agent (lead) in BOILED linseed oil. Modern boiled linseed oil doesnt seem to have lead, though it might have other metallic dryers.

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    Safe sand

    Hi,
    You can sand the veneer, but as said, it's a thin layer so you have to be careful!
    See pictures below: I did a pair of L80T's. They were in a bad shape and the veneer looked dull and scratched.
    But during sanding I found out the veneer was colored, so it turned pale after sanding.
    Had to color them again with a water based pigment, mixed three colors and tested and tested......
    Then used diluent/solvents-free oil, two layers. Put it on thick, wait a while and wipe the surplus off.

    Result:
    Name:  131224 Restauratie JBL L80T -20.jpg
Views: 1747
Size:  374.7 KB

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBLP View Post
    Hi,
    You can sand the veneer, but as said, it's a thin layer so you have to be careful!
    See pictures below: I did a pair of L80T's. They were in a bad shape and the veneer looked dull and scratched.
    But during sanding I found out the veneer was colored, so it turned pale after sanding.
    Had to color them again with a water based pigment, mixed three colors and tested and tested......
    Then used diluent/solvents-free oil, two layers. Put it on thick, wait a while and wipe the surplus off.

    Result:
    Name:  131224 Restauratie JBL L80T -20.jpg
Views: 1747
Size:  374.7 KB
    Nice job!!!!!!

    And you lived to tell the story, maybe this lead in the boiled variation of linseed oil thing is a little over blown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBLP View Post
    Hi,
    You can sand the veneer, but as said, it's a thin layer so you have to be careful!
    See pictures below: I did a pair of L80T's. They were in a bad shape and the veneer looked dull and scratched.
    But during sanding I found out the veneer was colored, so it turned pale after sanding.
    Had to color them again with a water based pigment, mixed three colors and tested and tested......
    Then used diluent/solvents-free oil, two layers. Put it on thick, wait a while and wipe the surplus off.

    Result:
    Name:  131224 Restauratie JBL L80T -20.jpg
Views: 1747
Size:  374.7 KB
    The reason the veneer turned pale after sanding is because the veneer on JBL "consumer" speakers after 1985 is not a true black walnut veneer. It's a synthetic wood product that resembles genuine veneer. If you sand it too much the grain will actually disappear. True black walnut doesn't need to be tinted to become dark when oiled. I believe the last "consumer" JBL speaker made with real walnut is the L96. The JBL "Professional" line used real walnut.

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    Senior Member rdgrimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill8888 View Post
    The reason the veneer turned pale after sanding is because the veneer on JBL "consumer" speakers after 1985 is not a true black walnut veneer. It's a synthetic wood product that resembles genuine veneer. If you sand it too much the grain will actually disappear. True black walnut doesn't need to be tinted to become dark when oiled. I believe the last "consumer" JBL speaker made with real walnut is the L96. The JBL "Professional" line used real walnut.
    True that. the later models have a completely different tone. The linseed/turpentine rub gives the black walnut a reddish tone that darkens with age. But apart from that, most any finish or even plain oil will darken them right up after sanding. You just don't quite get that reddish tone.

    FWIW, the 250ti had real walnut available and I think that was later than the L96.

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    FWIW, the 250ti had real walnut available and I think that was later than the L96.[/QUOTE]


    The standard 250Ti used fake teak veneer like the rest of the Ti series. A 250Ti in real walnut would be a special order, like the black piano finish or rosewood. Not many were made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBLP View Post
    Hi,
    You can sand the veneer, but as said, it's a thin layer so you have to be careful!
    See pictures below: I did a pair of L80T's. They were in a bad shape and the veneer looked dull and scratched.
    But during sanding I found out the veneer was colored, so it turned pale after sanding.
    Had to color them again with a water based pigment, mixed three colors and tested and tested......
    Then used diluent/solvents-free oil, two layers. Put it on thick, wait a while and wipe the surplus off.

    Result:
    Name:  131224 Restauratie JBL L80T -20.jpg
Views: 1747
Size:  374.7 KB
    Very nice save!

    My old 4312s were a little scrubbed up when I acquired them. I had my totally cherry 4301s to compare to. (similar era) I sanded, patched lost veneer, patched again and again (painted in the grain in the big patches using a tiny brush), then oiled, used the linseed and turp mix outside, left them to cure in the sun, did it again, did it again, lost track of how many coats it took to get to where they should be, sanding a bit between every other coat or so. I ended up using 1000 grit, long, flatplane sanding and then another oiling. They looked "better than new!"

    The idea is to allow the oil to seep in and "dry" then sand off (using extremely fine and finer abrasive) what did not soak in. Oil again.

    I was lucky that the wood underneath had not warped and the veneer had not lifted. I used them in my movie rig, until I fabbed some Cabaret type "loud boxes" for the movie rig.

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    Well, I was more concerned over the toxicity / lead aspect of this sanding job. I went ahead and sanded, had no respirator, did it inside..NOT SMART I KNOW...but I am still alive. however, I recommend for others to take the needed precautions as the oil composed of a BOILED linseed oil concoction may contain lead. Note that boiled linseed oil is not the same as raw linseed oil, it contains metallic driers (often lead in earlier boils and mostly cobalt in later ones). In 1978 lead additives were for the most part outlawed, but who knows if the factories paid any attention to the regulations. Next time I will certainly exercise more caution, and I hope others do as well.

    I used 220, 320, 400 and 600. I got most of the deeper scratches out, but was careful to not go through the veneer. It looks pretty nice in the end. After they were sanded I used restor-a-finish walnut, the look to my eyes is fairly close to the original. I do suppose that it can be rubbed further with 800 grit or higher depending on how mirrored you would like to get the finish. From the pictures the originals seem to be slightly more on the rough side (320/400/600 grit) as opposed to the shiny piano style finish(1000/2000 grit).

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    Quote Originally Posted by bill8888 View Post
    The standard 250Ti used fake teak veneer like the rest of the Ti series. A 250Ti in real walnut would be a special order, like the black piano finish or rosewood. Not many were made.
    if that really is fake teak veneer, they sure did a great job of it. I've had 4 250ti's and they all had different grain patterns. are you sure ? maybe confusing the "T" series ?

    the pod and edges are solid, and where the veneer has peeled around the bottom of the skirt sure looks real to me.
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

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