Hi,
I see that the finish on the JBLs is written in the manuals as "oiled walnut", and it is obviously a veneer. I am wondering if it is safe to sand and refinish these. I mean if they have a lead based finish on them, this might not be a good idea and it might be better to take it to a pro. Would love to hear back on this issue.
Most of the older oiled walnut finishes are hand finished and oiled with the formula in the thread link below:Originally Posted by archiekaras
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...oil+turpentine
Larry
Last edited by LRBacon; 12-23-2013 at 10:54 AM. Reason: add additional info
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...ish/page02.jpg
... as to whether it's "safe" or not, I'd suggest reading some references that include precautions for -any- kind of wood/furniture refinishing. It is your responsibility to understand the need for these precautions.
That said, on a relative scale of refinishing operations, this is pretty "safe"
No lead in either boiled linseed oil or pure gum turpentine. You don't want to leave your used rags laying around inside. Linseed oil is known for spontaneous combustion when left out in the open. I have left the rags I use outside on a rack and have not had any problems with them catching fire.
Larry
Personally I refuse to use the linseed/turpentine cocktail cause it just stinks too much and is highly flammable. The only issue with sanding the walnut veneer is if someone has previously used varnish or wax on it, which tends to gum up a lot of sandpaper. Just be aware you only have just so much veneer on there, about 1/8".
Actually, the walnut veneer is only 1/32 inch thick (.031). After sanding, you're better off applying a Watco brand Danish oil finish than mixing your own cocktail of oils. I use the Watco medium walnut for most of my speakers. The Watco dark walnut is fine if you want a darker finish, but it's gummier to apply. The JBL formula for the oil finish is designed to be cheap and easy to apply for mass production.
Not sure, they seem to use a drying agent (lead) in BOILED linseed oil. Modern boiled linseed oil doesnt seem to have lead, though it might have other metallic dryers.
Hi,
You can sand the veneer, but as said, it's a thin layer so you have to be careful!
See pictures below: I did a pair of L80T's. They were in a bad shape and the veneer looked dull and scratched.
But during sanding I found out the veneer was colored, so it turned pale after sanding.
Had to color them again with a water based pigment, mixed three colors and tested and tested......
Then used diluent/solvents-free oil, two layers. Put it on thick, wait a while and wipe the surplus off.
Result:
Nice job!!!!!!Hi,
You can sand the veneer, but as said, it's a thin layer so you have to be careful!
See pictures below: I did a pair of L80T's. They were in a bad shape and the veneer looked dull and scratched.
But during sanding I found out the veneer was colored, so it turned pale after sanding.
Had to color them again with a water based pigment, mixed three colors and tested and tested......
Then used diluent/solvents-free oil, two layers. Put it on thick, wait a while and wipe the surplus off.
Result:
And you lived to tell the story, maybe this lead in the boiled variation of linseed oil thing is a little over blown.
The reason the veneer turned pale after sanding is because the veneer on JBL "consumer" speakers after 1985 is not a true black walnut veneer. It's a synthetic wood product that resembles genuine veneer. If you sand it too much the grain will actually disappear. True black walnut doesn't need to be tinted to become dark when oiled. I believe the last "consumer" JBL speaker made with real walnut is the L96. The JBL "Professional" line used real walnut.Hi,
You can sand the veneer, but as said, it's a thin layer so you have to be careful!
See pictures below: I did a pair of L80T's. They were in a bad shape and the veneer looked dull and scratched.
But during sanding I found out the veneer was colored, so it turned pale after sanding.
Had to color them again with a water based pigment, mixed three colors and tested and tested......
Then used diluent/solvents-free oil, two layers. Put it on thick, wait a while and wipe the surplus off.
Result:
Very nice save!Hi,
You can sand the veneer, but as said, it's a thin layer so you have to be careful!
See pictures below: I did a pair of L80T's. They were in a bad shape and the veneer looked dull and scratched.
But during sanding I found out the veneer was colored, so it turned pale after sanding.
Had to color them again with a water based pigment, mixed three colors and tested and tested......
Then used diluent/solvents-free oil, two layers. Put it on thick, wait a while and wipe the surplus off.
Result:
My old 4312s were a little scrubbed up when I acquired them. I had my totally cherry 4301s to compare to. (similar era) I sanded, patched lost veneer, patched again and again (painted in the grain in the big patches using a tiny brush), then oiled, used the linseed and turp mix outside, left them to cure in the sun, did it again, did it again, lost track of how many coats it took to get to where they should be, sanding a bit between every other coat or so. I ended up using 1000 grit, long, flatplane sanding and then another oiling. They looked "better than new!"
The idea is to allow the oil to seep in and "dry" then sand off (using extremely fine and finer abrasive) what did not soak in. Oil again.
I was lucky that the wood underneath had not warped and the veneer had not lifted. I used them in my movie rig, until I fabbed some Cabaret type "loud boxes" for the movie rig.
I was pretty sure the Spaghetti wood veneers started with the T3 portion of the L-series speakers.
Here are 2 pictures - the first shows an (oak) L20T on top of an L20T3 (faux Mahogany?) on top of an L100T (walnut)
The 2nd is a set of 6 L20T3s I had collected at one time to create a surround system for a friend ...
I've had no problem with mild sanding and steel wooling on the L20T and L100T speakers,
followed by applying Howard's Orange oil or Feed'n'Wax to the surface ...
Those weird L20T3s didn't take oil quite the same way ...
2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460
Well, I was more concerned over the toxicity / lead aspect of this sanding job. I went ahead and sanded, had no respirator, did it inside..NOT SMART I KNOW...but I am still alive. however, I recommend for others to take the needed precautions as the oil composed of a BOILED linseed oil concoction may contain lead. Note that boiled linseed oil is not the same as raw linseed oil, it contains metallic driers (often lead in earlier boils and mostly cobalt in later ones). In 1978 lead additives were for the most part outlawed, but who knows if the factories paid any attention to the regulations. Next time I will certainly exercise more caution, and I hope others do as well.
I used 220, 320, 400 and 600. I got most of the deeper scratches out, but was careful to not go through the veneer. It looks pretty nice in the end. After they were sanded I used restor-a-finish walnut, the look to my eyes is fairly close to the original. I do suppose that it can be rubbed further with 800 grit or higher depending on how mirrored you would like to get the finish. From the pictures the originals seem to be slightly more on the rough side (320/400/600 grit) as opposed to the shiny piano style finish(1000/2000 grit).
One good way to get a more lustrous finish is to use 0000 steel wool to apply your finish. Follow up polishing with the same can also be done.
The veneer is for sure not synthetic;
I have a set L20T and a set L80T and seen some more L80T and L100T sets and they all have a different grain and different lines.
When you look at a synthetic laminate with a photo print (or other drawing) you will see the repeats coming back.
A closer look:
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