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Thread: Small amp for 2405?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Small amp for 2405?

    Greetings, All,

    I've been considering amplification for the 4-way, active, system I've been wanting to setup, and would appreciate some suggestions for a small (10-15W) amp for the 2405's. The drivers are 2245, 2123, 2445, and 2405, and the amps will be Crown CD-300A's (bridged) for each 2245, H/K 870 for 2123, internal amp from H/K AVR 20 for 2445, and the only smaller amp I have on hand is a 45W Nikko integrated set, on which the high end sounds brittle, edgy, and shrill, at least to my ears. I've also given thought to running the 2445 and 2405 with the same amp, and regular crossover, and just going active on the bottom and mid drivers. But, I would prefer to keep the entire system active, if possible, so your suggestions for a decent small amp for the 2405's would be appreciated. Cost is definitely a consideration, but I'd still love to hear what's out there today that would work in this system. Thanks, Merry Christmas, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc

    P.S. Just before our most recent snow and ice storm, I brought up the recent 4645 enclosure (thanks, Grumpy!), and SB gave a bit of a gasp when she saw it, and the 4645 I already have!! Though she is all for me playing around with these goodies, and loves our current system, she was a bit unprepared to see TWO 4645's together, AND the L300's, all in the same room!!
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  2. #2
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    I was recently contemplating this:

    http://www.diyaudio.com/store/amplif...ca-bundle.html

    for 2405 application. (can't specifically recommend it, esp. re noise, as I've not
    tried it yet... just looked like fun)

  3. #3
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    For high-fi sound reinforcement we used to use BGW 750's powering 4 slots per channel. Amplifiers have to work really hard to reproduce high frequency information accurately. The ultimate choice is the one that sounds the best to you..

  4. #4
    Senior Member JuniorJBL's Avatar
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    I have some Niles Audio High current 2 channel 50 w per and they sound really nice. They have pretty nice power supplies as well. YMMV
    Always fun learning more.......

  5. #5
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    I've had good luck and good sound from those little T-amps, if 10-15 watts is really all you need a Topping TA20 or similar might fill the bill. I use one in my office and it sounds pretty good, very smooth high end.

    Doc Mark, I believe I have met you over at Spiritburner.com? If so, hello and small world!

  6. #6
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    i cannot hear much from a 2405 slot.... too old now... this was confirmed by a hearing test.....

  7. #7
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Good Evening, All,

    Thank you, very much, for your suggestions, Gentlemen. Much appreciated! I must, however, plead confusion on one point, however. I have always thought that the higher frequency components did not need super large, high power amps. And, I've always used the big amps for bass reproduction, and amps with less power for the mids, and less, still, for the HF stuff. Have I been doing this wrong all these years??!! When we used BGW amps, the big boys went on the bottom; same with Crown, et.al., and much smaller amps drove the HF stuff. WOW!! A BGW 750 for tweeters!!! : )

    Grumpy, I'll check out the diy amp project, but in truth, think I'd rather have something that I don't have to build. Time is always in short supply with me, it seems, as our little business demands much of it. (That's one of the main reasons why this project has taken SOOOO long to even get started!!)

    JuniorJBL, good to hear from you. Your Niles amp sounds like it might work out well. I'll check into it, and see what it offers, pricing, and other such info.

    Rapidan, yes, I've been at CCS for more years than I can remember! What name do you go by over there? As with the other suggestions, I'll most certainly check out the TA20 amp, as it sounds promising. Are you new to JBL, or have you been at it a long time? I was into JBL much earlier than stoves, though once I quit playing music professionally, I haven't used my stuff too much, other than home stereo, and that's how things still stand.

    Thanks, again, to one and all, and I'll see which of your suggestions might work out for me in this project. It's funny how things snowball, though, when you begin actually digging into a long awaited project. Now, I've been thinking about sending my Crown VFX2A in for a rebuild, as it's a tad noisy these days. More stuff to consider, but I'm glad the Ashley is here, which, if all this comes to fruition, will more than likely be the one that is used full time. The Crown will just be an easy way to bi-amp the 2245's and the rest of the system, to get started. Thanks, again, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Mark View Post
    Good Evening, All,


    Rapidan, yes, I've been at CCS for more years than I can remember! What name do you go by over there? As with the other suggestions, I'll most certainly check out the TA20 amp, as it sounds promising. Are you new to JBL, or have you been at it a long time? I was into JBL much earlier than stoves, though once I quit playing music professionally, I haven't used my stuff too much, other than home stereo, and that's how things still stand.



    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
    Thanks Doc, I haven't been over there for a while, my handle was either this or Short Tip, I'll have to go over and check. I've got an assortment of white gas backpacking stoves and parts I have been amassing since the 60's, in my Boy Scout days. I got interested in fixing them up after trying a Jetboil and a Pocket Rocket for hot lunches and coffee for my guide clients - neither one satisfied, but my Svea 123 and Optimus Hunter still do. You guys gave me a lot of help over there.

    I've been a JBL fan since I splurged for my first pair of 4311's in my backroom 4-track studio in the 70's. I've used JBL ever since for business and pleasure, mostly pleasure now.

    Great to talk with you again!

  9. #9
    Senior Member stephane RAME's Avatar
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    2245 - BGW 750
    2123 - Crown DC300
    2445 - Crown D150
    2405 - Crown D45

    Stéphane
    Club double 16"
    "Laissez les Bons Temps Rouler"

  10. #10
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    Altec Lansing used bi-amplification in theaters early on - before solid state amps were popular, and that is when I became interested in the concept. I played with bi-amp and tri-amp applications a fair amount over the years....

    Frankly, building these systems is VERY hard to pull off well. In the early days, I suppose they did this because there were no really potent commercial amps. Obviously, powerful reliable solid state amps changed all this.

    My thought now is keep it simple...

    What ever you decide, realize that if you are not 20 years old anymore, hearing the slot tweeter at those high freq. may be a challenge, so spend your dollars wisely...

  11. #11
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertbartsch View Post
    Altec Lansing used bi-amplification in theaters early on - before solid state amps were popular, and that is when I became interested in the concept. I played with bi-amp and tri-amp applications a fair amount over the years....

    Frankly, building these systems is VERY hard to pull off well. In the early days, I suppose they did this because there were no really potent commercial amps. Obviously, powerful reliable solid state amps changed all this.

    My thought now is keep it simple...

    What ever you decide, realize that if you are not 20 years old anymore,
    hearing the slot tweeter at those high freq. may be a challenge, so spend your dollars wisely...
    Doing Bi amp well is not so hard these days - I ran my 4341s in biamp mode first with JBL/UREI M522 and JBL/UREI amps,
    then later with an Ashly active crossover and a pair of Adcom GFA555 amps ...
    Phil does it as well with the Ashly and a pair of Crown amps on his 4345s.

    I added 2405 slots to my L200 cabinets and built a 4333 crossover to run as passive 3 ways ...
    but the slots have a great rep and a great resale if my ears fade from grace ...

    I think Doc has it covered well!
    2ch: Oppo, JoLida 502CRC, JBL L212, 18ti,240ti; Heath AS101, Von Schweikert VR4
    7.1: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460

  12. #12
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Good Morning, All,

    Looking at Stephane's suggested amp list gives me the "warm and fuzzy feeling"!! I guess that, since we used Crown and some BGW, "back in the day" of playing music professionally, they still attract me, probably do to my trust and familiarity with those brands and amps! More food for thought, in any case. If I score a few more Crown amps, hopefully, the Series II stuff, than I could have an all-Crown system, which sounds good to me!

    Heather, your thoughts about bi-amping the bottom end, and running the rest of the transducers via a regular crossover, are more certainly in the forefront of my thoughts on all this, as another option to an all active system. Though it's been years since a built a crossover, I actually used to wind my own air coils, and always had good luck with them. In fact, I still have two huge coils downstairs that I wound for subwoofer use, simple 12db/octave stuff.

    Thanks, again, to one and all, for your suggestions. One strong consideration for me is the sound of the high end. I have grown to love the sweet open sound that H/K amps offer, and don't want to change that with whatever amp powers the 2405. I guess the proof is in the listening, when all is said and done. Talk to you all soon. Merry Christmas to one and all, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  13. #13
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    As Heather says, I use the Crown PS400 on the bottom of my 4345s and the PS200 for the upper-end through the charge-coupled networks built from the schematic in the DIY 4345 thread, and the Ashly. Works great for me. I did purchase a D75A to use in a bi-amp version of my childhood 030 system but haven't tried it yet. I also have a couple VFX2-A Crowns I thought I'd try in that application.

    The results in bi-amping my 4345s are so stunning that I really have no pressing need to alter or go beyond what I have. I now have a Crown Studio Reference-II I thought I'd try on the bottom-end but just for curiosity. I find no limit to, nor do I have any dissatisfaction with, the current bass performance from the system. I just always wanted a Studio Reference, so I might as well give it a try. And, yes, I do recall Greg's comments about the ring-radiator's performance through a network and his suggestion for a separate small amp. I just have absolutely no disappointment in the system's current performance.

    I will say I liked the results of switching from DC300A-II and D150A-II to the PS-series amps. So much so that I've laid in multiple spares of each, and the D-series workhorses are retired and dormant except in my old Mac C-20 system from high-school where the basic D150, my first Crown, the one without the faceplate, still works fine. I keep that system "all original" since I purchased the Crown and the L112s new while the C-20 was purchased used before either the amp or the speakers and I've owned them all ever since. I consider it my nostalgia system to use a a base-line while the 030 is in storage!

    Back on topic, I'd think you might like to try a used D75A (or older D60) or new D45 for your application. They're available new for not much more than that project amp and used for so little that you might as well add one to your collection.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  14. #14
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Hi, BMWCCA,

    I remember reading about your experiences with your various systems through-out your life. Fun stuff, and always enjoyable!

    Thanks for your thoughts on bi-amping, and the Crown amps you suggested. I've already got my eye on a pair of them: D150A Series II, and a D60. Looking at a D75, too, just in case the D60 doesn't come to hand. We'll see where it all goes from here. Buying an amp, unseen, and unheard, is rather like buying a pig in a poke. But, I've never had any problems with used Crown gear in the past, and with the prices being far more able to fit into our budget, it would probably be best to go that route right now. Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions, as always, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  15. #15
    Senior Member JuniorJBL's Avatar
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    Doc

    If you want to stay all Crown there are some Macro Reference on CL here in Denver I could help you aquire!!

    http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/4201705263.html
    Always fun learning more.......

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