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Thread: Long awaited 1501Fe - Edgarhorn project

  1. #1
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Long awaited 1501Fe - Edgarhorn project

    Pre-amp – Counterpoint Solid 8A
    Amp – Soundcraftman PM-860 Mosfet 200 wpc @ 8 ohms

    Tuner Denon TU-450
    CD player – AudioNote AN-CD2.1x tube buffered output

    Crossover – passive 2nd order LF @ 1100Hz(Bessel) – 3rd order HF @ 1800Hz w/att-EQ passive

    LF driver – JBL 1501Fe 15” 93 db/watt installed in 3 cu ft cabinet port tuned to approx 35Hz

    HF driver – JBL 2445J/Be on 350Hz round tractix horn

    Future design will be bi-amped to facillitate tube amp on the horns!

    Currently I have to say the crossover is not best for this 2-way, but sounds very promising with some tweaking, especially attenuating the horns (113db/w) to the woofer (93db/w).

    The bass goes deep and very articulate! I could only imagine when I can afford custom cabs at the proper size and tuning

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  2. #2
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    JBL 1501Fe - the driver JBL would have made more of if not for Nd!

    Playing pipe organ music and impressed with the minimal excursion of the 1501 while filling the room with plenty of LF energy!

    The 2226 was my favorite driver until now!

    I can't wait for the 1501's to reach full break-in!

    Pics of 2226 - 1501 for comparison

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Mostlydiy's Avatar
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    Looks promising. Wouldnt ~800Hz be a better cutoff for that kind of system?

    /Mostly

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    I see you have quick access to your beer stock pile while listening.

    Very cool setup.

  5. #5
    Senior Member JuniorJBL's Avatar
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    Those are some mighty big woofers you got there!!



    Congrats 57!!
    Always fun learning more.......

  6. #6
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    750 hz most likely in the future

    Quote Originally Posted by Mostlydiy View Post
    Looks promising. Wouldnt ~800Hz be a better cutoff for that kind of system?

    /Mostly
    I'm waiting for my dbx driverack to come back home from on loan to a friend.

    I just wanted to start the breadboard up for trying different ways of incorporating the 1501 and HF horn system.

    The crossover was used for a different system and it allows me to listen to the 1501 and determine how I want it run in the future. Yes, I know it's not optimum but I can listen to it until I get what I need in the future.

    When my financial means improve I will have cabs built for the 1501's.

    Regards, Ron
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  7. #7
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    I found MY ideal 15" driver!

    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorJBL View Post
    Those are some mighty big woofers you got there!!



    Congrats 57!!
    I always liked the 2226's for their excellent midbass qualities.

    The 1501 goes lower and still has some of the qualities of the 2226 that I like.

    I still might use the 1501's for subs and run either E-145/2206/2226 for mid/midbass. This will be a work in progress for me.

    This driver should have been available back in the day, it would have killed the competition big-time!

    Thanks to all the folks who made my 1501Fe's possible!!! It's a shame this driver will quietly dissappear, but hard to argue Nd is not the way to go.

    Regards, Ron
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  8. #8
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Beer cases from work

    Quote Originally Posted by NickH View Post
    I see you have quick access to your beer stock pile while listening.

    Very cool setup.
    I do part time Bar-back work and the empty beer cases are good for storing a lot of things. And when they get old or fall apart I just recycle them.

    Thanks for your kind thanks.

    I can't wait until I can go digital x-over and use tubes on the HF.

    Ron
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Mostlydiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spkrman57 View Post
    I'm waiting for my dbx driverack to come back home from on loan to a friend.

    I just wanted to start the breadboard up for trying different ways of incorporating the 1501 and HF horn system.

    The crossover was used for a different system and it allows me to listen to the 1501 and determine how I want it run in the future. Yes, I know it's not optimum but I can listen to it until I get what I need in the future.

    When my financial means improve I will have cabs built for the 1501's.

    Regards, Ron
    I get it, sounds reasonable.

    Btw, I like your horns, the upper horns in my avatar is 320Hz tractrix also. They do a decent job down to about 500Hz with the right driver. Currently I use B&C DE75 because one of my 2441 needs a new diaphram The DE75 does a great job as substitutes I have to say.

    /Mostly

  10. #10
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Hard to beat Be phrams

    Quote Originally Posted by Mostlydiy View Post
    Btw, I like your horns, the upper horns in my avatar is 320Hz tractrix also. They do a decent job down to about 500Hz with the right driver. Currently I use B&C DE75 because one of my 2441 needs a new diaphram The DE75 does a great job as substitutes I have to say.

    /Mostly
    You should try some Be phrams and hear how smooth they are.

    I'm still struggling with the sheet BrushWellman included with my Be phrams that state recommended x-over of 1Khz @ 12db/oct. I'm thinking I want 750Hz and wondering if they are just covering their arse with the higher than usual recommendation.

    Regards, Ron
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  11. #11
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    You can trade off lowering crossover freq with using steeper slope crossovers and/or lower power limits.
    Keep in mind that 1/2 the freq is double the excursion, and there's not a lot of play in the dia to phase plug distance, which limits how far you can make such a trade off. Ask the Be folks if 750Hz @18 or 24dB/oct would still be ok... I'd guess, yes... especially for home use.

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    I have the 4008 Be phrams they recommend 500hz @24dB/oct minimum.

  13. #13
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    Keep in mind that 1/2 the freq is double the excursion
    Actually its 4 times the excursion for a given SPL, but the backcap will act as an acoustical HP filter with a 12dB/oct slope, keeping excursion constant.

    I don't think there would be any problem with a 24dB/oct acoustic filter at 750Hz for home use. This will probably require something like a 12dB/oct electrical filter around that frequency (and some EQ).

    The S9800 electric filter for example is a simple cap (6dB/oct), and results when added toghether with the natural rolloff of the horn and compression driver to something like a 24dB/oct LR filter. This is probably too low an electrical slope (and this was corrected in the S9900 I think) but at least it seems that no compression driver was hurt during the life of that speaker...

  14. #14
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    Actually its 4 times the excursion for a given SPL....
    thanks... That's what I thought I remembered, then re-read (or mis-read) a JBL tech note and figured I'd remembered wrong (doh).

    http://www.jblpro.com/BackOffice/Pro...s/tn_v1n08.pdf

  15. #15
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input on the Be phrams application.

    I will be using either a 8 or 9 wpc single ended tube for the horn, so I think 750Hz @ either 18db/oct or 24 db/oct should work well.

    I also have a small room so I don't see much cranking levels anyways.

    The 4365 spkr system uses a passive crossover @ 750Hz 3rd order LF and what looks to me like a 2 nd order HF. But that is Mg phrams and wonder if they are run close to their limits in that application?

    Regards, Ron
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