Long awaited 1501Fe - Edgarhorn project

[spkrman57]

Re the first question , clearly there is a huge price difference between the low and high end end DSP, it begs the question other than greater PEQ , processors , facilities then what is one actually getting.
This plays directly into the M2 discussion
The second question brings in the debate about speaker measurement in general. Manufacturers in general use anechoic conditions to test their products and aim to achieve a flat response ( with other factors like dispersion / phase taken into consideration ) but from there you are at the mercy of your home environment response.
Aside from the hard core filter parameters , slopes frequency phase I am curious whether one forgets the anechoic part and aims directly for room response.
I'm leaning towards agreeing with you for the following reason. All this DSP technology M2 and all, filters down from the well established practices with Tour Sound where as you will no doubt be aware the system is tuned to the room / arena from setup.
Having said that I have found with my system 3 way analogue active ) that slight changes of crossover frequency have made significant improvements. Of course you can do this easily with DSP assuming you are hooked up to a PC or whatever.
I suspect it might be a long path for you Ron , hopefully with a happy ending.

Mac

I truly miss passive crossovers as there is less to change. I understand digital is the way to go if set up properly. I don't have measuring equipment or the time during the holidays to play with the system. I do listen however briefly on occasion and play with the settings to see what happens. 2014 will bring more improvement to my system.

Ron

[macaroonie]

A smartphone with an SPL app will get you rolling. Bit crudimentary but hey

[spkrman57]

Biggest problem now is room is too cluttered.

I changed the x-over to 18 db/oct BW 375 hz and 1000 hz 12/db/oct and sounds better, but have not played enough different types of music to see if it is that good or not.

Ron

[macaroonie]

Are you adjusting on the fly with PC control of the DBX ? Note that the M2 uses very sharp cutoff's but that may be more to do with power handling.

M

[spkrman57]

Are you adjusting on the fly with PC control of the DBX ? Note that the M2 uses very sharp cutoff's but that may be more to do with power handling.

M

I'm not coming up with anything exciting enough to mention. I guess digital lets you play with different variables, but as the experts here have mentioned over and over again "you can't get it right without measuring". I'm hoping to just get close at this point.

I also don't have much time to play with the settings as I'm busy this time of year doing chores.

Ron

[doucanoe]

I dabbled in the world of active crossovers several years back now. The actives I was using were pretty bare bones DBX SS and Marchand tube compared to the unit your using so comparisons really can't be made. All I can say is that although there was a glimmer of better things to come, I quickly grew weary of the mass of cabling, hum and the multitude of amplifiers needed to 2 or 3-way up and running.

I really felt that I would revisit later on when funds allowed for a more serious active crossover. As time passed, my aversion to the mass of cabling and multitude of amplifiers grew at a more rapid rate than my curiosity in chasing the "better sound" said to be had by going active.

I'm now pretty comfortable in the notion that I more than likely will never know if there is any truth in that or not.

RC

[spkrman57]

After some time to listen to the system I have come to the conclusion that the 1501Fe will most definitely benefit from a larger box and lower tuning(when funds permit in 2014).

Even with experimenting with different frequencies I still returen back to 375hz 18db/oct and 1khz 12db/oct providing the clearest soundstage. I sit 6 ft away from my spkrs and therefore it's hard to hide any flaws in the system.

My horns need a new base/bracket to hold it up higher. I'm currently about 4 to 6 inches too low.

I finally found out how to work the graphic EQ and experimented with it a bit. I will do a passive HF EQ circuit as I don't like the dbx EQ which is limited to 16khz on the top. On the bottom end I decreases -3db @ 28 hz which really made up for the small box and higher tuning I'm using now. I found no reason for adding LF EQ as it is not needed for my listening. I tried gentle bump @ 40 hz but found it not pleasant to my ears. I'm really looking forward to when I can get a proper box/tuning for the 1501Fe.

Mosfet amps on the 1501Fe (Soundcraftsman PM-860 and Adcom 555 - II) sounded more realistic than like the JBL 6290 bipolar amp that sounded harsh in delivery. I like Mosfet amps as most sound more tubelike than bipolar transistor types.

I truly think that down the road I'll be using passive crossover rather than bi-amping. The dbx driverack Pa + is okay, not the high-end performance I'm used to.

More to follow after the holidays!

I really do love these 1501's, my previous favorite driver was the 2226. The 1501Fe is 4 db less efficient but gives a octave or more LF response.

Happy Holidays everyone!

Regards, Ron

[spkrman57]

Crossover Frequency:
750Hz 24 db/oct LR

EQ:
31.5Hz -3db/oct
40Hz +3db/oct
16Khz +3db

I'm listening to this and I may be closer to what I like. I just have not had a lot of time to play lately and hope to do more after the 1st of the year.

Regards, Ron

[danvprod]

Enjoyed reading you build here and also your tweaking as you develop crossover that meets your listening requirements. Interested to see that you went for the symmetrical 750 Hz 24 dB/octave vs. 350 @ 18dB and 1k @ 12 dB that you described before.

I've be playing with my crossover for a similar project (2226 in 4 cu ft @ 45 Hz, 2445J) and currently am using a 80 Hz 6 dB/octave and 1000 Hz 24 dB/octave to deal with the rising midrange response of the 2226 in the small enclosure. I was going to try you 350/1k and see how that sounds as well.

[macaroonie]

Hey Ron I tried to snag the DBX software without success , can you point me in the right direction online if its there.
I was wanting to have a look at how the EQ is implemented. Are the center frequencies fixed ? Is Q variable at all ? or is it a straight Graphic ?

Cheers Mac

[spkrman57]

Hey Ron I tried to snag the DBX software without success , can you point me in the right direction online if its there.
I was wanting to have a look at how the EQ is implemented. Are the center frequencies fixed ? Is Q variable at all ? or is it a straight Graphic ?

Cheers Mac

Mac,

Parts Express has them and can be ordered online. They cost $100 less than what I paid last year for mine.

There is both a graphic EQ and a separate parametric EQ onboard. So the parametric has the adjustable "Q".

I have had some success with the 750hz LR 24db/oct crossover setting and I'm considering using a Marchand X-over I bought last year. I have 2 x-over modules 24db/oct w/freq setting resistor chip for 750hz LR and I don't really use all the features the dbx has. So I will probably put the Marchand xm-9 modules and power supply in a chassis and run that. EQ and delay I can work without needing and that will simplify things.

Ron

[spkrman57]

Enjoyed reading you build here and also your tweaking as you develop crossover that meets your listening requirements. Interested to see that you went for the symmetrical 750 Hz 24 dB/octave vs. 350 @ 18dB and 1k @ 12 dB that you described before.

I've be playing with my crossover for a similar project (2226 in 4 cu ft @ 45 Hz, 2445J) and currently am using a 80 Hz 6 dB/octave and 1000 Hz 24 dB/octave to deal with the rising midrange response of the 2226 in the small enclosure. I was going to try you 350/1k and see how that sounds as well.

But I missed too much midrange with the 375hz. I had to go to 24db/oct LR to keep the 1501Fe from sounding slightly muffled.

750Hz 24db/oct LR is sounding pretty good so far, but my biggest problem is I have not had much time to play with it lately. When everything gets slower soon I can get more serious time to play the system.

Regards, Ron

[Mostlydiy]

I'm getting my dbx driverack pa + back Monday morning.

I'm thinking 1501 up to where midbass/midrange driver takes over.

Options for mid: E-145/2206/2226/Ev Sp-12 (I'm thinking 2206 best here) powered by single ended tube amp. either KT-88 or EL34.

HF is already good: JBL 2445/Be/350Hz Edgarhorn powered by 300B SET amp (my favorite amp!)

With either the JBL 2206 or EV SP-12 1Khz on the HF is no prob, in fact I would be comfortable @ 1200 Hz with those drivers.

I welcome comments here on this.

This will be a work in progress and I don't mind trying different drivers for the mid until I get the sound stage I'm looking for.

Regards, Ron

If you are to use the 1501Fe for sub duty only, have you decided on the mid already?

/Mostly

[spkrman57]

If you are to use the 1501Fe for sub duty only, have you decided on the mid already?

/Mostly

I'm leaning towards the E145 in 2.5 cubic ft box tuned to 50Hz resulting approx -3db down @ 80Hz.

My other option was 2206, but I don't have decent cabs in house for using them.

Ron

PS: everything is sitting idle until winter decides to leave Ohio!

[spkrman57]

I'm leaning towards that when I find some old Marantz cabs I used before.

Winter wx still keeping me busy chpping snow and ice off the gutters.

Ron