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Thread: Array 1400 Using Stock SAM1HF, LE14H-3, and passive 2-way Crossover?

  1. #1
    Member reconed's Avatar
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    Array 1400 Using Stock SAM1HF, LE14H-3, and passive 2-way Crossover?

    I have started an Array 1400 clone project. I have a pair of SAM1HFs and LE14H-3s, and I would consider making something like the SAM12x passive crossover but for use with LE14H-3. That may be good enough (for me) along with the stock SAM1HF crossovers. And less expensive and quicker to get up and running.

    Has anybody tried using the SAM1HF with its stock passive crossover with a modified SAM12X or home made SAM12X-type crossover for use with LE14H-3's for the woofers?

    I have collected a lot of info about the array 1400 clone projects here. I have found the schematics for the array 1400 crossovers. I was thinking of making the array 1400 low frequency crossover and adding a high-pass to feed the SAM1HF. Would this be worthwhile?

    Anyone have schematics for the SAM12X crossover?

    Another quick and dirty approach would be to use an active crossover and bi-amp. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    The goal is to make a high quality speaker for 2-channel audio.

  2. #2
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    With the SAM1HF and a LE14H-3 you are so close to having a magnificent speaker, to go "quick and dirty" with the networks would be so wrong! The difference a network makes isn't trivial, it is critical!


    Widget

  3. #3
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Just build stock 1400 networks or charge couple them for the 435 and 045. To bi-amp you need custom voltage drives that Greg Timbers has already been kind enough to provide. I built my 1400 Array's from scratch using Be components. Best thing to do is use the stock network with that component set. Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Air core inductors worth it?

    I guess there are really no shortcuts, and I don't want to compromise the performance.

    I think this is the correct schematic for the stock Array 1400 crossovers.
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...643-1400-Array (post #10)

    I've been putting together a parts list and finding the components.

    I saw a picture of the Array 1400 LF crossover which uses air-core inductors. In pictures of your (Robh3606) crossover I noticed some ferrite core inductors. How important is the core type for the large inductors in these crossovers? Is low DCR more important? The 14 gauge air core inductors available have a DCR of about 0.52 ohms, and the schematic shows a DCR of 0.45 ohms, is the difference significant enough to go to 13 gauge wire inductors or switch to ferrite core inductors with lower DCR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Just build stock 1400 networks or charge couple them for the 435 and 045. To bi-amp you need custom voltage drives that Greg Timbers has already been kind enough to provide. I built my 1400 Array's from scratch using Be components. Best thing to do is use the stock network with that component set. Rob

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I saw a picture of the Array 1400 LF crossover which uses air-core inductors. In pictures of your (Robh3606) crossover I noticed some ferrite core inductors. How important is the core type for the large inductors in these crossovers? Is low DCR more important? The 14 gauge air core inductors available have a DCR of about 0.52 ohms, and the schematic shows a DCR of 0.45 ohms, is the difference significant enough to go to 13 gauge wire inductors or switch to ferrite core inductors with lower DCR?
    I went looking for air cores at the time and they were expensive. I have used ferrite and not had any issues. I mean how much power are you planning on using as far as listening levels?? I would definitely try to stay below the max DCR numbers. Do you have any crossover design software?? You can always see what effects changes in DCR will have. If it's only 10 mohms I would get to concerned. I got ERSE laminated I cores


    http://www.erseaudio.com/ELC54-18-4300


    Look at the difference in price also look at the power ratings

    http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/XQ.../EAV77-14-4500

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Senior Member JuniorJBL's Avatar
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    I tried the XO's from my SAM1HF's but that only lasted about 20 minutes. I then used an Ashly 1001 and a pair of amps while I ordered crossover parts to build a passive crossover.

    I did Air cores on the MF and HF and ferrite on the 14.


    Truly that XO from the stock SAM's are more tuned towards speech and impact not music.

    JMO
    Always fun learning more.......

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    Inductors

    Thanks Rob - I appreciate your advice on this. I'm sure the power handling would be fine either way. I don't want to add any audible distortion if it results from the ferrite core saturation or hysteresis. I have no experience to judge whether that would be audible. The 14 ga air core inductors are expensive and still have higher DCR. I think it really takes 13 ga wire to meet the DCR spec. The data sheet for the I cores states <8000 hz woofer applications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    I went looking for air cores at the time and they were expensive. I have used ferrite and not had any issues. I mean how much power are you planning on using as far as listening levels?? I would definitely try to stay below the max DCR numbers. Do you have any crossover design software?? You can always see what effects changes in DCR will have. If it's only 10 mohms I would get to concerned. I got ERSE laminated I cores



    http://www.erseaudio.com/ELC54-18-4300


    Look at the difference in price also look at the power ratings

    http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/XQ.../EAV77-14-4500

    Rob

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    Sam1hf xo

    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorJBL View Post
    I tried the XO's from my SAM1HF's but that only lasted about 20 minutes. I then used an Ashly 1001 and a pair of amps while I ordered crossover parts to build a passive crossover.

    I did Air cores on the MF and HF and ferrite on the 14.


    Truly that XO from the stock SAM's are more tuned towards speech and impact not music.

    JMO
    Thanks for letting me know - I have not heard them since I don't have an active xo and biamp setup to test. I will get going on the array 1400 crossovers.

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    ERSE Super Q

    Rob - I think these coils could do the trick, 600W.
    http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/Su.../ESQ55-14-4300

    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    I went looking for air cores at the time and they were expensive. I have used ferrite and not had any issues. I mean how much power are you planning on using as far as listening levels?? I would definitely try to stay below the max DCR numbers. Do you have any crossover design software?? You can always see what effects changes in DCR will have. If it's only 10 mohms I would get to concerned. I got ERSE laminated I cores


    http://www.erseaudio.com/ELC54-18-4300


    Look at the difference in price also look at the power ratings

    http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/XQ.../EAV77-14-4500

    Rob

  10. #10
    Senior Member JuniorJBL's Avatar
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    Always fun learning more.......

  11. #11
    Member reconed's Avatar
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    Of course! - I have thoroughly studied that thread already. Nice looking job. Did you finish the cabs and mount the xo's in full view? Pictures of the final product?


    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorJBL View Post

  12. #12
    Senior Member JuniorJBL's Avatar
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    They have since evolved with 476Mg's and 045Be's.

    They sound so good that I have not bothered to change a thing other than they are off the floor about 6 more inches.

    I will build cabs at some point but the theater is next in-line for some upgrades. I will most likely put the XO's to where they can be seen but out of the way, maybe integrate them on top of the cab.......

    Anyways as most here have said, the 1400 Array platform is just a no-brainer. The vertical horn is truly awesome and makes a very large difference over traditional horizontal horns IMHO.
    Always fun learning more.......

  13. #13
    Obsolete
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    I'm really glad to see yet another fan of this DIY solution!

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    Senior Member DavidF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I'm really glad to see yet another fan of this DIY solution!
    Second that thought. I have had my pair in daily use for a while now. We three are getting along very well, thank you.
    David F
    San Jose

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidF View Post
    Second that thought. I have had my pair in daily use for a while now. We three are getting along very well, thank you.
    Thanks for sharing your project. It's very encouraging. I'm putting together a parts list for the crossover networks, and I noticed you used air-core inductors in the low frequency crossover. What are the specs for these and where did you get them? I'm considering the Erse SuperQ ferrite cores.

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