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Thread: Passive Monitor Thread

  1. #91
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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  2. #92
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Well got it all built together and working! Only took 5 years to actually hear the drivers! Rainy today so perfect for sitting and listening. Had issues ordering parts with values not available had to shift resistor values and parallel up caps to get the values. Looking at the schematic I realized because of the bypassed attenuation I didn't have a series cap to protect the driver from DC. Salvaged some old networks and have 66 uF in series with the networks. I deleted my old schematic and voltage drives. Did a comparison of actual vs predicted and damn LEAP never ceases to amaze!

    When I set them up I used the voltage drive as a reference for how much additional attenuation to use on the CD on the HF crossover level. I didn't realize just how efficient the 2216's are running with no network, quite a difference from what I had in this system before. These will take some getting used to! They sound kinda unique! With this waveguide it is actually hard to get out of the sweet spot in a smallish room like they are in now. I experimented with toe in and got the best results with them pointed at each ear. Really wanted to move them out into the room but can't too small a space. This is not the best room for them but it's all I have so that's that.

    So how do they sound?? Damn nice but different if that makes sense. It's the combination that seems to work so well. The 2216's are really clean and extended and the compression driver just seems to add to it. The 476Mg is one nice sounding driver! Will run them like this for a while until I can get some outdoor measurements on the system.

    Wish 4313 was still here! Never would have been able to do this without his generous gift of the 2216's also thanks to Jerry Moro and for getting me the 476 Mgs.

    Rob
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  3. #93
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    Nice work Robh! I know it'll take some time breaking them in mechanically, and your brain to them as well, but I'll be curious to know if you'll find the midrange (say 200hz up to crossover) as natural sounding as your E-145 system.

  4. #94
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusty jefferson View Post
    Nice work Robh!...
    I'll be curious to know if you'll find the midrange (say 200hz up to crossover) as natural sounding as your E-145 system.
    +1

    I will definitely be waiting for your impressions as you dial the system in.


    Widget

  5. #95
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    Looking good Rob and ditto what Widget said. Wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments about 4313 too.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusty jefferson View Post
    Nice work Robh! I know it'll take some time breaking them in mechanically, and your brain to them as well, but I'll be curious to know if you'll find the midrange (say 200hz up to crossover) as natural sounding as your E-145 system.
    Sorry, I think maybe you used a mid-woofer in that system? Not applicable if that's the case.

  7. #97
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Rusty, Widget

    Thanks! So you reading my mind?? That's funny you said that because that is exactly what I was using as a reference to help get the horn level right. I was using the overall E-145 system balance and now completely understand why JBL uses such subtle attenuation steps in Everest as an example. It took a while and lots of different music to find the sweet spot where I felt it was balanced by carefully adjusting the trim pots on the active crossover. I stared high and dialed down.

    It's weird if you are up a little too much horn on the surface it's listenable but just not right and once you get it right there is no going back. It's now obviously off once you go through the effort. In the E-145 system I have 3 drivers in the range covered by the 2216 a 2235/E-145/2123 so it's actually a 3 to one comparison! The E-145 is my mid woofer in that system. I will let you know once I have more time and running up and down stairs is some much needed exercise in the lock down!

    Rob
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  8. #98
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    The cabinets came out very nice with a unique, but definitely JBL look.

    Will there be an actual plot of the woofer/horn combination?


  9. #99
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Will there be an actual plot of the woofer/horn combination?
    Hello Toddalin

    Thanks! Having too many issues measuring in room an octave below the crossover point to be sure it's correct. The transition level needs to be spot on and I am not sure with the ripple what's going on. I am going to do some outdoor measurement's to verify what I already have. If I use what I have it looks really good but I would rather wait to see what's up. Once I get a passive lowpass built I will take a measurement and post it.

    Rob
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  10. #100
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Hi Rob , is that you in room at sweet spot response or is that a LEAP prediction.
    If it is the room response it is outstanding.

  11. #101
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hi Rob , is that you in room at sweet spot response or is that a LEAP prediction.
    If it is the room response it is outstanding.
    Hello Macoronie

    That is a Leap prediction at 4ft based on a set of in room measurements at that distance. The actual vs predicted are 1 ft from the horn/close. The close is to verity the on axis CD compensation. I would never expect an in room listening position measurement to be that smooth without doing a multi position listening window and averaging.

    Rob
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  12. #102
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Here is a warts and all snapshot measurement slightly behind me over my left shoulder. No where near as nice as the LEAP sims. This is not gated and you can clearly see the room modes are different Left vs Right. This is through the entire system including the +6 db boost at 25Hz.

    Rob
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  13. #103
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    Point of reference:

    This is the spectrum for the Ethyl Mermans where I sit on the couch among the cushions. This is from the pink noise source in the Behringer DEQ2496 and there is no sub, eq, or digital processing of any kind being used.

    Note how smoothly my treatments to the Heil (lens/foam) let it blend with the 2251J. No easy feat! Also, the L-pads for both the 2251 and Heil are maxed out so could be removed from the circuit; a testiment to how well I was able to match the volume of the Heil and 2251 though component selection.

    There is no way that my L200/300 variants are anywhere near that smooth from ~300 Hz.

    Of course every time I look at the spectra, I modifiy the crossovers to make them smoother. For example, the dip at 4kHz is where the Heil crosses over to the 2251J. I can create a dip or peak depending on the selected by-pass resistor value in parallel with the choke. A smaller value reduces the 2251J's roll-off and I am using 2.34 ohms. After seeing this, I'll probably reduce it to 2 ohms letting the 2251 sing just a hair higher.

    And I may even add another 0.1 mfd on the Heil to let it sing a bit lower. But if I go too far, I'll create a peak at just under 4kHz. Everything is a trade-off/compromise.






  14. #104
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Thanks Todd. Still pretty darn good.

    M

  15. #105
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    Great work (again!) Rob. I STILL haven't got round to making a passive network for my 2206/2435Be/SAM1's and have been running them active via AllDSP LMS controller.
    One thing I have noticed is I can flatten the response of the HF to within a dB or so but find extensive eq robs the life out of them, counter intuitive I know but they definitely sound better with a few 'warts' left in if you get my meaning.

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