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Thread: Sub for Everest DD66000.

  1. #1
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    Sub for Everest DD66000.

    I am thinking of buying a subwoofer for my Everest DD66000.
    I think Array 1500, or perhaps a DIY project with a 18 "2242H from S1S-EX in a small cabinet in the style of array enclosure.
    I have no room for S1S-EX, but can just clear an Array 1500 Sub size.

    What do you guys think will be the best match for my Everest?
    And will the 18" 2242H play ok, in a smaller enclosure?
    The 2242H has unlike Array somewhat higher sensitivity, similar to Everest.
    What would you do?

    Brian Dk

  2. #2
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    You have to check sensibility in the target range, not in the midrange of the driver, and you will see the 2242 is likely no higher than the sub1500 there...

    If you want a small sub, you will probably end up with a sealed system, and a motional feedback would then be a good solution to reduce distortion and power compression effects.
    Check out Rythmik Audio's offering: their kits are not too expensive (albeit shipping to europe make them less of a bargain...), and motional feedback seems to do wonders!

    You will probably need several subs to match your expectations (let alone match the D66000 SPL/dynamic potential...) both in terms of SPL and room mode compensation.

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    You might want to look at the Revel Rythym2 subwoofer.

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Just curious but I'm assuming this is for home theater use?

    Probably more here than just me are pondering why a DD6600 would ever need a sub for two-channel music listening.
    It pretty much boggles my mind.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Probably more here than just me are pondering why a DD6600 would ever need a sub for two-channel music listening.
    It pretty much boggles my mind.
    I guess it depends on your room to some extent but mostly the music you listen to. For '70s rock or vintage Jazz... there is no bass below about 40Hz and a sub isn't a consideration... however there are numerous classical recordings and modern pieces of music with very deep bass. The DD66000 as designed does not reproduce subterranean bass. It simply wasn't designed to do it. I don't often miss that, in fact if I play "Thank You" from Boz Scaggs' Dig Album the room pressurizes from the "deep" bass. You would say adding a sub is ridiculous, however I have a number of tracks that have very low frequency content... these would benefit from a true sub.

    Back to the original poster. I have considered this myself. I would go the 1500 Array or the Revel Rhythm2 route. I definitely would not use a 2242. I have build subs with them... I don't think the have the extension or refinement necessary. I actually bought a Revel 12" baby brother to the Rhythm2 that I'll be trying out. In my room I don't have space to hide the 1500 Array or the massive Rhythem2 sub. As long as SPLs are reasonable the small 12" sub should be fine. As suggested by Mr. BWM... the need is minimal. I will give it a whirl, but I haven't had time to hook it up and balance it into my system.


    Widget

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Thanks for that thoughtful explanation.

    I can't imagine needing to augment the LF response on my 4345 and hold the DD6600 in awe, though I've never heard them.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    I think at the 15" W1500H in 1500Array are much better than 2242H for sub in home audio system
    the only 18" driver I am interested to try for sub is 2269G/H

    of course you can also go for the new 18" Revel sub
    this sub is build with same magnet and basket like 2269 with different cone

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Thanks for that thoughtful explanation.

    I can't imagine needing to augment the LF response on my 4345 and hold the DD6600 in awe, though I've never heard them.
    Hmmm....I've had sub1500's with my 4345's for years. Needed in my room

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    I agree with Mr. Widget.
    At most music is a sub not necessary.
    But I also play some modern music, where I miss the deep bass.
    And in general just the thought of how the system will sound if it comes down to 20Hz and not the 45Hz where Everest roll off.

    Thanks to you all for ideas, I think I will try to get hold on 2 Array 1500.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Just curious but I'm assuming this is for home theater use?

    Probably more here than just me are pondering why a DD6600 would ever need a sub for two-channel music listening.
    It pretty much boggles my mind.

    Because you have to go back to basics...
    two bass sources... tend to cancel one another
    a sub ...(w/dedicated freqs) won't

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    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    THis early Spring, I built an 11cft 2245-based sub and am very happy with it. The sub bass is very musical and not a one note hit. The sub works from 20Hz to 50Hz to complement a 2-way 2226/2360 system. I am very pleased after 6 months. The cabinet has since been dyed tangerine on the sides, and satin black on the front panel, to better integrate with the other cabinets. I am a firm believer that there'S no substitute for a large enclosure to get an easy breathy deep bass... Can't beat the laws of physic. ;-)









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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian DK View Post
    I agree with Mr. Widget.
    At most music is a sub not necessary.
    But I also play some modern music, where I miss the deep bass.
    And in general just the thought of how the system will sound if it comes down to 20Hz and not the 45Hz where Everest roll off.

    Thanks to you all for ideas, I think I will try to get hold on 2 Array 1500.
    The stock Everest II is tuned to ~ 31 Hz. You can apply some EQ at that frequency to fill in the area under the curve. The 1500 Array will only buy you a few more Hz for a ton more money.

    Quite frankly, I'd just tune the Everest II box down to around 27 to 28 Hz and apply a few dB of EQ at that frequency. That's what I did with my clones.

    For comparison, the 1500 Array runs a 4 dB EQ bump at 26 Hz, very similar to the original B380 and B460.

    My point is, there is so much potential in the Everest II system. Dump the passive filter, go DSP as per the M2 and end up with a system that is actually worth something remotely approaching $60,000 per pair.


    What am I saying! Just buy a pair of 1500 Arrays. You've already spent $60,000 so what's another ten grand or so.
    But definitely get some kind of bass management setup for them.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    My point is, there is so much potential in the Everest II system. Dump the passive filter, go DSP as per the M2 and end up with a system that is actually worth something remotely approaching $60,000 per pair.
    I both agree and disagree. Conceptually I agree completely. Unfortunately in practice, I am not sure which AD/DSP/DAC combination would be truly invisible.

    In my system, I have taken the analog chain up several notches and it is the source of choice. I fear it would be extremely costly to insert a DSP into the mix and not step backwards. I have been considering playing around with a Meyer Sound analog PEQ. I'm not sure it will be quiet and transparent enough though.

    All that said, yes the pair of 1501ALs in the E2 are capable of phenomenal output at a level of sonic excellence that is near the pinicle of what is possible... very curious about the woofers in the DD67000.


    Widget

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    Senior Member Hoerninger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    ... I am not sure which AD/DSP/DAC combination would be truly invisible.
    All of these contain amp stages. The simplest form would be a one or two OP amp circuit with some LF boost. Some tests before with a parametric equalizer stage might be useful. But who can offer this engineering?

    I have doubts about an extra speaker and another amp because the room behavier is unclear. And I see it just as well:
    the pair of 1501ALs in the E2 are capable of phenomenal output at a level of sonic excellence that is near the pinicle of what is possible...
    ____________
    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Unfortunately in practice, I am not sure which AD/DSP/DAC combination would be truly invisible.
    I've lost track of where certain people are with respect to going active with their Everest systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I'm not sure it will be quiet and transparent enough though.
    I'm at the point where the next step requires having the master tapes on hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    All that said, yes the pair of 1501ALs in the E2 are capable of phenomenal output at a level of sonic excellence that is near the pinicle of what is possible... very curious about the woofers in the DD67000.
    I'm hoping for some kind of hybrid, the Fs of the 1501AL-1 coupled with the surround of the 1501AL-2 along with an 8 ohm voice coil.

    But, a complete waste of time to even think about since HAdM has no interest in manufacturing any of it. No recone kits, no raw transducers, nothing.

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