Sub for Everest DD66000.

[DynaMax]

A few more pictures here:

Comments to the pictures:

First picture: Front baffel in the shown prototypes are removable for easy swapping drivers.

Last picture: In left side you see the top-to-bottom slot-vent, decided because I don't like the "OOmpphy" sound from long vents similar to the Synthesis-S1S-EX (2242H) that was tried copied. Because there are no very long vent similar to the S1S-EX, this system (with Electro Voice EVX-180B woofers) rolls off pretty high despite enclosure volume at 480 liters, but can easily be tuned very low by electronic boost. When boosting lots of air are moved via the slot-vent below the EVX-180B drivers Fs (28Hz), but creates no harm to the sound. Slot-vent in combination with electronic boost are choosen over traditional (passive) tuning by long vents, to avoid the OOmppy sound/port noise typical for long vents.

I choosed the EVX-180B over the 2242H because the EVX-180X offers a Fs at 28Hz and the 2242H are 35Fs.

I know there are better woofers out there than the EVX-180B, but developing this system has been a pretty expensive issue, and new drivers are about to be tested when economy are back on track.

(I should love trying 4 x the 2269H, but the "spare part" price I was asked to pay from the local JBL Pro distributor was far from attractive taken into consideration that my risk are ending up with no use of the drivers*). *MMS at 2269H are almost double the weight/mms of the EVX-180B, and that scares me a little since I am going for best possible acceleration factor. My fear are the 2269H need to be played loud before sounding sweet because of the very strong neo motor system. And my goal with this system are not "long-term P.A. capable sound pressure", but HiFi = the possibility of listening at low levels are of high importance.

My electronics (housed in the raw mdf box), has the following features:

Fully discrete design (No IC's, No OP-amps), Class-A operation.
Selectable crossover 45/60 Hz. (24/dB) and off-course a pass through option. (Two different frequencies in order to meet variation in music).
28Hz Q0.7 Eq./boost by selectable gain: +3,+6,+9dB to compensate for driver roll-off, and off-course a pass through option (0dB gain).
15Hz subsonic filter in order to protect drivers.
LF-variable output (0 to +6dB).
24dB/24dB crossover at 800Hz
Selectable 700-800Hz boost (+1,+2dB) to compensate for Al1501 notch in meeting the 4" Be. (but I guess Al1502 would do better..?)
Selectable 4500-5500Hz notch (-1, -2dB) to flatten out a little 5kHz peak I have in my system. (Perhaps a local problem generated by my room.?).
Selectable 20.000Hz boost (+3, +6dB) to compensate for the system roll off above 16Khz. (in order to add more transparency to the very Hf reproduction to the factory design of DD66000)
No Volumen at output for Al1501 and 4" Be. in order to keep cleanest possible signal path.

Kind regards
Henrik, DynaMax
www.dynamax.dk

[wsilva]

Sweet!

[pos]

Wow, that is a perfect fit!
How about a pair of cabinets per side, surrounding each speaker?

Regarding 18" choices, beside the reference JBL 2245H (still hard to beat IMHO) there is the TAD TL1801 (still in production), and the more modern BMS 18N862 and McCauley 6174 (never heard those ones personally, but the specifications sure look impressive and the reviews are always very positive)

[DynaMax]

Thank you very much to WSILVA and to POS.

And yes POS - one pr. side at each speaker has been in my mind for 2 years!

Actually drawings for a mk2 EX version are made. A much more advanced design for even better integration with the JBL Everest in order to obtain universal system setup with a free choice of angling the E2 or not. Fully rounded rear as the rear of E2, but because of the almost "round" enclosure the greatest challenge has been to find the production facilities* for round enclosures.

* I have finished a set of computer drawings made specific for production of the mk2 at "Hornslet Cabinets" - the former manufacture of the E2 enclosures, but since "Hornslet Cabinets" closed their doors in december 2013, I have been lost according to progress.

Could you imagine an LF enclosure in exact same finish (veneer + enclosure roundings) as the E2? Wow.. Thoughts like that really keep me awake at night and I guess E2 fans around the world would pee in their pants if such a system was released.

By the way; where are the E2 enclosures getting made today? Perhaps they would like to get an sample order from me?

Kind regards
Henrik, DynaMax
www.dynamax.dk

[4313B]

Well it appears that you were able to make the best out of a less than ideal situation by throwing enough money at it. Congratulations on that. It does appear to be a clever solution.

I'll certainly not bother trying to explain, much less defend, the K2-S9900 or Everest II systems going forward. They obviously just don't cut it in certain environments and you are not the first person to prove that.

I had the opposite problem with the dual woofers. They were way too much in my environment. A single 1501AL-2 does everything I could possibly want it to do. I guess I got really lucky.

By the way; where are the E2 enclosures getting made today?

The last I heard on the subject - available while supplies last. In other words, none of these systems are still being manufactured?

[DynaMax]

Hi4313B

Are you really telling me that the DD67000 has been discontinued short after it has been introduced - wow.

Thats really heavy news..

Kind regards
Henrik, DynaMax

[rusty jefferson]

That seems like a completely appropriate solution in your room, and VERY nicely executed.



A room in fact, not unlike the sales brochure.

[macaroonie]

I prefer Henrik's flooring.

[speakerdave]

. . . .The last I heard on the subject - available while supplies last. In other words, none of these systems are still being manufactured?

Maybe we could put together a consortium to buy the engineering and tooling for certain elements before they get used to seed a coral reef.

[Mr. Widget]

The last I heard on the subject - available while supplies last. In other words, none of these systems are still being manufactured?

My price list doesn't reflect that, so Harman likely has several years worth sitting in their warehouse ready to be populated with drivers as they sell. That seems to be how they operate... and if there was suddenly a significant demand for these speakers more would magically get produced. They are even offering piano black finish on the DD67000s as a special order, so they are certainly still assembling these beasts.

That said, with Harman dumping the last of the DD66000s and the DD67000s not being all that different, the market for these large horn based systems is likely saturated. I don't know what the current tally is, but they have sold many hundreds of pairs of these beasts! Pretty remarkable really. Like the Paragons and Hartsfields before them, these will continue to be cherished and well cared for so they should be with us for many, many years to come.

Now, the DD65000, that is a different story. They were very short lived and have been discontinued.


Widget

[pos]

Now, the DD65000, that is a different story. They were very short lived and have been discontinued.

So this is the end of the road for the 1501AL-1 as well?
Too bad, that was a very interesting driver...

[4313B]

I don't know what the current tally is, but they have sold many hundreds of pairs of these beasts! Pretty remarkable really. Like the Paragons and Hartsfields before them, these will continue to be cherished and well cared for so they should be with us for many, many years to come.

I would hope that there are a decent number of owners that like them just the way they are.

They are awfully expensive to be a disappointment.

JBL could have offered an alternate package wherein a replacement port system tuning the box 10 Hz lower was available along with a passive network bypass and a file for the Crowns. That's where my money would go.

Of course one could just seal the ports up and apply a Linkwitz transform.

I'm waiting for all the whining to start over the M2.

Now, the DD65000, that is a different story. They were very short lived and have been discontinued.

Yeah, that was probably a bad move, making a less expensive version of an iconic system.

So this is the end of the road for the 1501AL-1 as well?
Too bad, that was a very interesting driver...

It will be interesting to see what Consumer does next. The 2216Nd seems to be a real favorite right now. Too bad it requires neo. I think they are going through the whole "how do we make ferrite better" thing again.

[timc]

Availability status is probably because the cabinet manufacturer (Hornslet in Denmark) just went bust. Quite an amount of S9900 and E2 cabinets in unifinished condition were sold of at low prices.


-tim

[Mr. Widget]

I would hope that there are a decent number of owners that like them just the way they are.

I am one.
It is a fantastic speaker. Is it perfect? No, but then no other speaker is either.

Even though I have a small sub tucked in the corner of the room it is almost never on.

I think this thread like many here shows us once again just why there are so many choices out there. Some people here seem to equate quality with SPL, others with frequency range extension, others with dynamic impact, and others seem to seek other aspects of audio. What I like about the DD66000 is the effortless dynamics that help the music sound "live"... these are not "audiophile" speakers, but they do not offend my personal "audiophile" tendencies. They are extremely accurate, image surprisingly well, have amazing detail resolution, and yet can play as loudly as anyone could ever want. There is a lot to love, but no... they are not perfect. As far as I know, that hasn't been invented yet.


Widget

[DynaMax]

Dear Widget

For sure it is fantastic speakers, and there are many reasons to buy it, but more reasons not to buy it. Tough words indeed, but I am an Everest retailer who suffers from having more potential buyers turning their thumps down instead of buying the speakers..

The reason is simple - it has nothing to do with taste, sound character etc., but the simple fact that the speakers only let about 85% of the music signal getting through..

Look at it like this; a kind of "scientific" consideration:

If you feed a full range (20-20.000Hz) music signal into your audio system - divided into 10 octaves, and then measure by ear, you only get 8,5 octave out of the speakers:

20-40Hz = no signal
40-80Hz = 50% signal
80-160Hz = 100% signal
160-320Hz = 100% signal
320-640Hz = 100% signal
640-1280Hz = 100% signal
2560-5Khz = 100% signal
5-10Khz = 100% signal
10-20Khz = 100% signal

One of the speakers beloved performance skills according to you, are its effortless dynamics - I fully agree, thats why they are in my main show room - but fact are this is only from 60Hz and up..

In order to extend the effortless dynamics full range, a tiny 12" corner placed sub won't match in MY room - lots of surface are needed to reproduce +100dB from 60Hz and down.

Another thing JBL management should consider:

People who buys fast cars are often the same people who goes fast on the high-way, the same with JBL EVEREST; most people who prefer such speakers also prefer listen to loud music.. To experience 30-40Hz at a level that matches the rest of the speakers output, even an EQ of the speakers will NOT do it, simply because you need +6-9dB in 30-50Hz compared to the above freq. range, in order to compensate for the less LF sensitive in human hearing.

Thats why my point are that regular bass extension modules should have been developed for those of us who want's to use the speakers in the "fast lane"

This thread was started by a person who are seeking a sub or LF extension for his Everest for the reasons I explain above, I know his reasons because I auditioned his system. He already has tried with dual Array1500 but he was not happy since Array 1500 was to slow. Now he got a DEQX in his system, and still he is not happy - but too much of a gentleman to let you know in this forum

My point are there are many similar people out there - they all seems to be happy - but not satisfied, and thats why I am sharing my own challenges - and how to manage: Bass EXtensions rather that subwoofers.

BELOW: Another picture showing my EVEREST EXtensions from listening position

Henrik, DynaMax
www.dynamax.dk