As far as peculiar ailments go... it's not so bad.Originally Posted by JBLP
Those are some beautiful pieces!
Widget
As far as peculiar ailments go... it's not so bad.
Those are some beautiful pieces!
Widget
I think they go hand in hand.
My wife prefers motorbikes, she rides a lot better than I do but then she's 20 years younger as well.
Sometimes the student surpasses the master.
Go for a Sunday ride on a nice morning and listen to Rock and Roll later in the day or in the evening.
I actually fix motorcycles for a living but still enjoy riding and fettling my own as well.
Loudspeakers and audio/music is purely a hobby.
I try to get people that have put it all away back into it.
I've built loudspeakers for other people and only charged for materials as I find I learn with each project I do.
I build what I want not what they want.
If you never build anything you never learn anything.
Is concrete not a material that really rings?
I have always found that acoustically concrete houses (in The Netherlands) sounded terrible. (houses in Canada are wood frame)
2nd choice is brick with lime mortar much more dead than concrete or cement mortar. (Had an old house in Sint Maarten 1869)
New houses in Canada are lumber just like old ones but the wood is more like compressed toilet paper than real wood
The best acoustics are to be found in old wood frame houses where the wood is old growth and very heavy.
I have the DBX 223 2 way stereo electronic crossover as I mentioned
I use a Nottingham Analogue Space Deck or an older Pioneer PD-S502 CD player.
My vinyl takes priority as you can see but the CD player does work well.
I have a Croft Micro A tube pre amp and a Croft Series 5 power amp (28watts a side) for the horns.
I actually switched the 3B and the Croft and found they sounded the same.
I will need to repeat this experiment with the NAD.
I recently replaced a Sim Audio 4070 Celeste amp (borrowed) with a NAD 906 multi channel amp.
It is actually 3 stereo 30 watt/channel amps in 1 and I am using 1 channel to drive the 2205s.
I thought it would be great to experiment with bi/tri amp systems and at $150 pretty cheap.
The most transparent sound I've ever had if not the most super low bass.
I used to have a Bryston 3B but loaned it to a friend in Vernon. (He who owns the dead HH Scott)
I will have to try it again, I also have an HH Scott 150 watt Mosfet amp to try after I reassemble it with new caps etc.
I used to use 3 3B Brystons, 1 each bridged (400watts) for each bass drivers and 1 stereo for the horns.
I used to drive this to clipping regularly with no ill effects to the speakers that I can tell.
The NADs can also be bridged at 100Watts and I will try that as well.
I think that simple and small seems to offer more clarity than brute power.
I love your amps, they look like brand spanking new, where do you find stuff like that?
My first amp was a Sansui AU 2900, I used it on my Altec horns many years ago and found it harsh.
That was no doubt due to crossovers and levels etc, I'd love to try it again but don't know where it ended up.
A friend used to have a Luxman L80-V (40 watts a side) and I always liked that too.
I've always used Motorola piezos for super tweeters and found they work well regardless of what everybody says, remember to use a resistor to protect your power amp.
Lots of Dutch people here on Vancouver Island, our Honour will be protected.
As well as old world craftsmanship.
My Dad was a real "cheese head " from Alkmaar.
Thanks
Bloys
Mr Widget: a peculiar ailment one can grow old with.......
Hoi Bloys: thanks for sharing. I had to look on Internet for your amps and pre-amps to see what you mean: quite impressive gear!
Got my Sansui set from Germany, Ebay and picked it up from a smokers-house.
When I turned it on, nicotine smoke came out of the chimney......
So I took them apart to clean, polish and tip some black paint.
I had them re-capped by a professional.
Went to Martin2395 this weekend. Met him on this Forum and lives only 35 km from me.
Lansing unites
Martin has a set JBL4343 (with 2235H's), so I had my first 43-series experience: amazing, amazing, amazing!!!
So open, clear, pure, defined and quiet. No big wave of sound attacking your ears.
I so hope I can reach this point with my adventure.......
But he also has some gear driving them!!!! Active crossover and Bi-amped. Woofer cable direct to driver terminals.
What a sound!
I bought the JBL 5235 Crossover, he had for sale, with modified cards: 300Hz/12dB.
With Martins permission some pictures:
Looks like a very listenable setup.
Thank you
Does look like it's very listenable.
Don't the plants rattle on the cabinets?
I remember when my ex in The Netherlands watered her (not mine) plants and flooded them and my vinyl records.
I nearly killed her over that.
I have a dedicated room now with plans for acoustic treatment and no plants
Nice to meet someone with a shared passion so close to home.
Oh yeah, these look familiar, 4343A with 2235H, 2121, 2421B and 2405
I'm using a BSS FDS360 x-over set to 300Hz/24dB, Krell 50mkII amp for the mid/high section and the K2 is powering the 2235H's.
Cables are (almost all) MIT - 330, 750S2, Digital ref. and two ZCordII's.
@kawasakitech
The plants were my own ideaThe idea is to let them grow long enough to cover the sides of the cabinets and the flower pot itself.
I only forgot that this kind of plant has water dripping from the leaves when you water it regularly, I saw it just on time when I saw some water on the cover of the amp.
The cabs don't mind a bit of water since they are not vineered, only painted.
The flower pots are like 4-5kg each and there is a piece of cloth between it and the speaker so the only things that rattle are the windows
@JBLP
The foto's turned out better than expected I must say! They look quite decent when resized.
Sadly a lot of people think when they see the 4343 is that these are some kind of PA speaker and the first question they ask is "How much do your neighbours hate you?"
At least until they hear a nice piece of jazz or blues they quickly realize how 'polite' these monsters actually can sound....
You Sansui gear looks lovely!
I bought a set of 2425s with 2370 horns and Ti diaphragms. $290 including shipping, very nice shape.
Not sure if they are OEM JBL diaphragms, how can I tell?
They are 8 ohms as opposed to originally they were 16ohms (writing on back cover confirmed with a VOM)
The rear cover foams are bad but I've already found another thread on that.
Also the bolts to the horns and rear cover screws are plated steel (magnetic) my 2447s have stainless steel studs and screws.
Would it be better to replace these with stainless steel?
You can see I just laid them on top of the cabinets for a test, I unhooked the Altecs of course.
Very nice on first impression, listened to 4 sides of vinyl.(Genesis, The Police, Dire Straits and Lemolo)
Not harsh at all but more efficient than the Altecs so they need to be turned down.
They actually sound like they have more clarity and less noise (turning the amp down always reduces noise with it).
Just used cheesy speaker wire and normally horns sound better bolted to something on the flange as it damps out resonances.
Hopefully they will sound even better in the sand filled cabinets with respectable speaker wire, I usually prefer solid core as it is less harsh.
You can also see how I blocked the ports as opposed to the earlier pics.
You can also see the 2205 in place of the 2220 I had before.
I have no idea why I replaced the 2205s as I had them first but I did.
Would anybody have any ideas on how to get the Altec horns out of the cabinet without damage as i glued the flange with silicone, I thought it would damp resonance well.
It really sticks to both the wood and the aluminum casting.
JBLP
I like your cabinet bracing, mine is not as extensive but still extensive, I used tropical hardwood as Suzuki Motorcycles used to come in crates reinforced with really nice 2.5 cm square (1in) clear hardwood.
I built these cabinets in '85/'86 and got the hardwood at work for free.
Where did you get the design for the bracing?
Did you come up with it yourself or is it similar to OEM JBL?
Do you use any dead sheets or some such to damp panels further?
I have used thick roofing felt and tar adhesive along with ring nails for retention.
Does make a cabinet very heavy, but if you don't plan to move.
Remember to let it all dry for a while before installing your drivers as adhesives can release solvents that soften the adhesives in your drivers.
I like your user name and gather JBL Paul but like the LP reference, do you have any vinyl?
Have you listened to your 2425/Beyma horns, I was wondering what you thought of them?
If I come to The Netherlands for a visit we should get together and spin some vinyl at least, if you're OK with that.
Martin2395
Does this refer to the JBL horn and acoustic lens?
Yours is a smaller version or am I wrong?
Piezo tweeters... that takes me back.
On the question of impedance, you do understand the difference between AC impedance and DCR which a multi-meter will measure?
On horn removal, the throat of the horn will give you significant leverage. I bet if you unbolt the horn, you will be able to gently torque on the throat and get the front flange to pop free. If a gentle effort doesn't do the trick, take a single edged razor and slide it between the flange and cabinet, then try again. I no longer use silicone as a gasket but over the years I've glued dozens and dozens of drivers into cabinets and never had a problem removing them later.
Now about those horns... are you sure you want to go with that 2370 over the Altec? I'm not sure I would.
Widget
MR WIDGET
Thank you for the tips.
I'll give it a try, I hope the veneer does not delaminate from the front panel
Any experience with bathroom silicone solvent?
I do understand the difference between AC impedance and DC resistance.
I measured 6.6/6.7 ohms and I presumed the impedance to be 8 ohms and not 16.
I will listen a bit more before I decide which horns to use.
I also listened to the JBLs crossed over at 1.2k and understand they are allowed to go lower.
I tried the Altecs at 800hz as opposed to 1.2k but that only works at very low level, as soon as I turn it up a bit it gets harsh.
Is it possible that the harsh sound people get from their Ti diaphragms is caused by a too low crossover point?
I will also try the Altec without the piezos as I listened to the JBL without as well.
I still want to get the Altecs out of the cabinets as I plan to put the horns in separate sand filled boxes to damp resonance.
I'm not as ambitious as JBLP but am proceeding with ongoing experiments over the long term.
Bloys
Hey Kawasakitech: See post 2 of this thread; Earl k and Odd gave me the plans for a 4344-DIY.
It's a very well detailed and well worked out plan. The author is OS (on the plans) but I still don't know who this is and thus to thank.
But as discussed after, the design of the front look was changed in these plans. I went back to the original layout of the factory made 4344.
I used this plan for a start (very helpful) but used my own guts-feeling for thickness mdf-sheets, bracing, supports, fixings, etc.
It was also depending on the wood I had on stock in my shed. Like you did: building with left overs and free materials is always nice (and green....).
The bracing is based on "it cannot be too strong", so I put more in. Same principle for the round sewage pipe (10mm thick) for the 2122 enclosure; I thought it would be stronger.
When I now knock with my knuckles on the enclosure, it sounds dead and solid.
So I think I don't have to use dead-sheets or other materials to damp the panels (30mm MDF-Medite).
I'm filling the cabinet now with special sound absorption material; high tech stuff. I'll see what it does.
User name: LP does not refer to vinyl. I don't have vinyl.....
My last name starts with a L, like James' last name and the P is indeed Paul.
Did not listen to the drivers since I don't have any crossovers. I have to start with them ...... as a NOT electrician......
I can start listening to the 2235H's with the JBL 5235 before the Amp.
Yes, visit, when you are back in cheese head land. No vinyl but for sure some good music. Hope the 4344's are finished and sound at least as good as Martin2395's JBL's.......
I'm so curious about your sand filled boxes, talking about NOT being ambitious......
JB LP
Cheese head land, nice one. I'd rather call it Cheesemouth country
Paul, I still had a feeling that my BSS xover was doing something wrong with the signal, the cutoff frequency seemed too high to me.
I sent it to a guy from a Dutch DIY forum(he's also active member of LH) for a major check-up.
He sent me a graph showing that the crossover point was actually not 300Hz but around 350 and with veeeeeeeeery slow rolloff (certainly NOT 24dB/octave) actually allowing the woofer to play up to 2KHz, This may also clarify that strange room resonance I always experienced.Not to mention phase shifting...
Can't wait to hear it with new pots, op-amps and (partially)recapped and of course with the right crossover frequency since the components on the cards were wrong...
Mr Widget
What makes you say that you would choose the Altec over the JBL horns?
JBLP
I'm looking forward to listening at your place already, thanks for the invite, not very Canadian to kind of invite my self.
I'll have to extend an invite for you and anybody else on this thread to listen to my efforts in Ladysmith BC Canada.
Contact me through this website please.
Too bad you don't have any vinyl, The Netherlands did have early and quite high levels of CD acceptance.
I did always get a lot of great vinyl deals on "Konninge Dag" (Queens Day) street markets when I lived there.
Martin2395
Interesting story on the crossover, how old is this unit?
Could be a lesson to us all to test equipment that we are relying on to be accurate and is possibly not.
Canadian cheese is crap, I do get some very old Gouda once in a while but it is very expensive as the duty on it is high.
It makes a great gift when visiting ex pats in Canada
@kawasakitech
My crossover is somewhere from the mid 90's so it's probably already 15-20 years old.
It was mostly the tech's fault who got the components on the frequency boards wrong, though.
Hey Martin; I like your Avatar!
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