Did my JBLs Cause Listener Fatigue? No ! It's CDs !!

[shureman]

When I acquired a used 080 system in 1971, I spent many a happy hour listening to my opera LPs. After getting married in 1974 I rarely spun these items. In the late '90's I purchased CD versions of these same recordings. Something wasn't the same. The vocals were now shrill and overly bright, while the orchestras seemed thin and sorely lacking in dynamics and bass. In short I found the CDs hard to listen to for any extended time, and try as I might with my loudness control I could not replicate the (to my ears) great sound of the LPs. I thought it was both the CDs and perhaps that overly bright JBL sound that was causing my displeasure.

Recently I installed a new top-of-the line Shure stylus which I had hoarded when it was discontinued. I put on the LP and...presto ! That warm, dynamic sound was back and sounded just fine on the old 55-year old speakers.

These CDs were mastered in the late 1980's but I doubt they will ever be re-mastered using newer technologies owing to costs. So guess I'll have to stick to the old LPs !!

[spkrman57]

CD players are just like phono cartridges, they cost for the better ones!

Don't give up on CD's until you find a better CD player.

Regards, Ron

[Lee in Montreal]

No matter what CD player is used, there were major problems until the early nineties with awfully badly mastered CDs. Not all CDs were bad, but a lot were. I had purchased within a month some vinyl and their CD counterpart. Vinyl wins outright while the CD lacks everything, and some...

[4313B]

No matter what CD player is used, there were major problems until the early nineties with awfully badly mastered CDs. Not all CDs were bad, but a lot were. I had purchased within a month some vinyl and their CD counterpart. Vinyl wins outright while the CD lacks everything, and some...

Nobody cares. Convenience won.

Nevermind that you are right.

[57BELAIRE]

and so goes the story....analog vs. digital

[Lee in Montreal]

Convenience won indeed. CD's have now been replaced by MP3s...

[hjames]

Convenience won indeed. CD's have now been replaced by MP3s...

No no, FLAC and ALACs, PLEASE -
MP3s are only for novices and non-serious music buffs ...

[4313B]

No no, FLAC and ALACs, PLEASE -
MP3s are only for novices and non-serious music buffs ...

I think it had to do with file size at the time.

[BMWCCA]

I've always been curious about why some of my favorite LPs that quite early on were re-issued on CD sounded like crap.

I can take the same LP, convert it to a WAV file on my Tascam DR1, burn it to a CD, and the result replicates the sound of the original LP when played on my CD player. Why did they choose to mess with the mix to reissue some classics early-on in the CD era? Were they just messing with the treble control in an attempt to add some sizzle? If they'd left them alone we wouldn't keep hearing about these poorly mastered CDs and we'd likely not have as big a ruckus over the whole vinyl versus digital issue.

[hjames]

I've always been curious about why some of my favorite LPs that quite early on were re-issued on CD sounded like crap.

I can take the same LP, convert it to a WAV file on my Tascam DR1, burn it to a CD, and the result replicates the sound of the original LP when played on my CD player. Why did they choose to mess with the mix to reissue some classics early-on in the CD era? Were they just messing with the treble control in an attempt to add some sizzle? If they'd left them alone we wouldn't keep hearing about these poorly mastered CDs and we'd likely not have as big a ruckus over the whole vinyl versus digital issue.

C'mon you have better computers in your PHONE today than some of those 80s and 90s mixing consoles no doubt had.
And its not just the hardware - Software is much better as well.

Tho you would think that even without a good computer,
if they'd had a good Neve console and a good engineer they could have done better than those dump-and-sell early CDs!

[SEAWOLF97]

Well now, I have 4 active turntables in my home, plus an extensive library of licorice pizzas,
and you would expect me to come down on the side for LP's ??? NOT ALWAYS , in fact many times the CD is better.
There are awful LP's & CD's ....I don't think that you can settle exclusively on one format without losing some benefit from ignoring the other.

I posted a Julian Hersch article long ago about the differences in CD listening. The Ohio Audio Club did a blind comparison of TOTL (at that time) Sony 777-ES vs. a battery powered portable. Nobody could reliably identify the pricey unit. IE: don't go chasing expensive hardware to try to fix a software problem. The worst CD will still sound bad on the best CD player.

A great LP CAN best a mediocre CD & vise versa ...there just is NO correct answer as to which is better. A turntable now is for process oriented fiddlers like myself , but sometimes the convenience of a CD is hard to beat.

The first CD that I can remember was a Ry Cooder ...I was stunned by the lack of surface artifacts , but now, those noises are just psycho-acoustically tuned out for the large part.

summary: you CAN get both great sound and poor sound from either format , BUT getting the good sound from Lp's just takes more involvement & care.

(I typed all this with one hand whilst eating strawberry cheesecake after dinner, so no guarantees of accuracy)

[BMWCCA]

I posted a Julian Hersch article long ago about the differences in CD listening . . .
(I typed all this with one hand whilst eating strawberry cheesecake after dinner, so no guarantees of accuracy)

Well, thanks for sharing——the cheesecake, that is. Of course the fellow is Julian Hirsch, not Hersch.


I guess the point I was trying to make is that if they did nothing at all in duping the LPs to CD back then, they'd have turned out better. I'm going direct from LP to an SD card in WAV format and it sounds just like the LP when I'm done. The DR-1 is a great little machine but nothing fancy. I just don't know why so much of the early dupes to CD sounded so awful. There had to some intentional changes in the transfer. Did the engineers not have ears? I suppose they'd have had a better chance of having JBLs in the sound room then than now! I just don't get it.

[Mr. Widget]

I guess the point I was trying to make is that if they did nothing at all in duping the LPs to CD back then, they'd have turned out better.

Not sure about that... some undoubtedly made bad judgement calls, but the number of hard glaring CDs out there tells me there is more to it than that.

I just don't know why so much of the early dupes to CD sounded so awful.

See Heather's post.

I'm going direct from LP to an SD card in WAV format and it sounds just like the LP when I'm done.

Really? I can believe the overall tone is extremely closely matched, but I'm highly skeptical that the spatial info is all there... though the amount of spatial info is also dependent on the analog gear too. A great moving coil cart on a well set up table will offer more of a dimensional sound than a lesser analog system, but even basic analog playback typically exceeds Redbook CD.

Did the engineers not have ears? I suppose they'd have had a better chance of having JBLs in the sound room then than now! I just don't get it.

I've wondered that myself. Emperor's New Clothes? I don't understand why more didn't push back... a number did, but the majority got sucked into the group think of the era.


Widget

[Dave_72]

No matter what CD player is used, there were major problems until the early nineties with awfully badly mastered CDs. Not all CDs were bad, but a lot were. I had purchased within a month some vinyl and their CD counterpart. Vinyl wins outright while the CD lacks everything, and some...

I agree!

[Dave_72]

A great moving coil cart on a well set up table will offer more of a dimensional sound than a lesser analog system, but even basic analog playback typically exceeds Redbook CD.

Widget

Exactly. To me, redbook cd sounds canned and a bit distant. The vinyl (particularly on recordings from the 50s up until the late 80s) sounds more alive and in your face. However, it does vary, and I do have instances of the CD beating the LP of the same recording.