LP Upkeep and its Worthiness

[Titanium Dome]

Given all the hubbub about high end turntables, cartridges, phono preamps, and vinyl LPs coming back from the dead, I've positioned myself over the past year to become more capable in this area.

For years, I've had a well-repected turntable and cart, feeding it into either a vintage 1970s Kenwood separates system or more recently the excellent HK 3490 stereo receiver. There are some LPs that I like that have never been released on CD or as electronic files, so this is the only way to keep that music alive short of recording it from vinyl, which to me is a nonstarter. See, I've always considered the LP a flawed medium, and all I'd get is a copy of an already inferior source.

I've been fanatical about the care of the records I've kept, and they generally sound about as noise free as an LP can, but of course over time the fidelity degrades and eventually the recordings will be worn out. Thus, I use them sparingly.

Recently I had the opportunity to purchase a turntable that regularly sells for more than $1000 (without cartridge) if imported direct from Japan, plus a several hundred dollar cartridge and some "special" cables. Since I'd already purchased an analog only preamp in the Parasound P7 with a highly regarded MC/MM phono input thanks to Mr. Widget and I've got a nice pair of high end loudspeakers (Widget again!) and powerful amps with big fat speaker cables to play through, I found myself with a very nice two-channel system for vinyl playback, as well as digital discs through an Oppo BDP83-SE or iStreamer DAC for iTunes files. Although I paid much less, that's a $65k + or - system, and if it's not good enough to judge by, then I'm not interested in doing more.

In this thread, my focus will be on three things.

1. My reaction to LPs old and new, including exclusive new pressings in virgin vinyl and my long term outlook.
2. My experience with an expensive (to me) manual turntable and moving coil cartridge.
3. The care and maintenance of the medium (vinyl LPs) and whether or not it's worth the effort (to me).

Certainly there will be lots of suggestions and comments about this. In typical TiDome fashion, I'll follow my own path at my own pace until I've concluded this personal journey, but feel free to comment as you will.

[SEAWOLF97]

In this thread, my focus will be on three things.

1. My reaction to LPs old and new, including exclusive new pressings in virgin vinyl and my long term outlook.
   
2. The care and maintenance of the medium (vinyl LPs) and whether or not it's worth the effort (to me).

Certainly there will be lots of suggestions and comments about this. In typical TiDome fashion, I'll follow my own path at my own pace until I've concluded this personal journey, but feel free to comment as you will.

EVERYBODY who spins vinyl seriously has opinions on those subjects ... why is yours unique or valuable ?

[brett_s]

I'll be watching this thread with lots of interest. I'm very curious on what your thoughts are going to be.

I've been thinking of going down this path myself, but I'm still undecided. Maybe you'll nudge me one way or the other.

Brett

[4313B]

EVERYBODY who spins vinyl seriously has opinions on those subjects ... why is yours unique or valuable ?

Hopefully we will all find out.


I've been toying with the idea of digging out my turntable and vinyl collection. What does one do these days if they don't have an Ortofon TC3000 to calibrate their turntable? My turntable has to be completely out of adjustment after having sat in the shipping box for more years than I care to admit.

[Hoerninger]

... for more years than I care to admit.

Never mind - it had a restful time.
My LENCO L75 (wheeler) and BRAUN PS 500 (belt) are about forty years old and had needed some refurbishing.
They are still running pleasingly.
____________
Peter

[Mr. Widget]

I've been toying with the idea of digging out my turntable and vinyl collection.

I use a simple Shure scale and Mobile Fidelity Geo Disc to set mine up... no doubt the setup is not as exact as it might be, but it sounds pretty damned good to me.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

EVERYBODY who spins vinyl seriously has opinions on those subjects ... why is yours unique or valuable ?

This is the internet... I think additional data points are always welcomed.


Widget

[speakerdave]

I've never been without a vinyl setup in my system, it's function merely to give me access to the music on the accumulated discs, so a rather modest Thorens/Shure/Shure (beryllium again) Conrad-Johnson PV9 rig is still in use. I don't play vinyl every day. With extended digital play between I am always pleasantly reminded of that indefinable vinyl sound, especially with all analog processing. Within moments my tolerance of ticks and pops returns, but the inner groove distortion usually still gets noticed. These days my Denon 5900/Bryston DAC generally satisfies. Most all-analog vinyl recordings are old, old, and they will never be a big presence in the market again, I would assume. But anyone who has vinyl in storage would probably enjoy it again, if playing it can be arranged without too great expense.

[Hoerninger]

... additional data points are always welcomed.

This thread is quite timely. I had to invest into complete new PC hardware, there is no internal soundcard anymore.
Now I will use a FOCUSRITE Scarlet 2i4 and a FIIO D3 for record and playback with up to 24 bit 96 kHz for digitizing. It doesn't cost more than my old 16 bit soundcard.
(I hope this is still on toppic.)
____________
Peter

[BMWCCA]

I'm afraid my B&O 4002 has atrophied from disuse since the advent of the CD! Solenoid grease sticks, etc. Dragging before lifting, and such. I'd have to resort to the simpler Beogram RX. Don't remember where I last stashed the Thorens. We've been in this house over 30-years. Only another move will find everything. Oh yeah, the vinyl! That's on a huge shelf in a different room altogether. Ah, the memories of the Zero-stat, D3, and all the preening just to listen to 20-minutes of music at a pop.
I bring it out only to amaze and astound the children.

[Titanium Dome]

My first TT experience with 33 1/3 LPs was at a neighbor's house with a Magnavox console, soon followed by a Magnavox console at our house. My parents weren't very careful with records and didn't seem to mind fingerprints, dust, and scratches on them. Maybe it was the lack of true fidelity in the Magnavox, but poorly taken care of records sounded ok, and well taken care ones didn't really sound much better. I still took the admonitions on the record jackets as gospel, and later it proved to be fortuitous.

My first Electrophonic stereo with a BSR TT really made it clear that cared-for records sounded better than neglected or abused records. Since it had a "scratch filter" I could minimize the surface noises of abused records, but of course that shot the fidelity to hell.

The JBL L100, Dual 1219, Kenwood KR6160 system that I bought in college really proved the worth of good record care. Especially when others in the dorm would bring their LPs for a listen on the best system in the school, I'd cringe at placing some of the dirty, scratched things on my platter. Some I'd outright refuse to play for fear of damaging my needle. At this time I became manager of the school's student radio station, and entered a world of unusual opportunity where free records, t-shirts, posters, special discs, and concert tickets would come my way every week. I accumulated a lot of LPs that never made it big but that I found to be equal to or better than the stuff that was getting a lot of airplay. Some of these records never got manufactured past the promo pieces. For these, there will never be a CD or digital copy, so if I mess one up, that's it, it's gone.

Even in college I was careful and washed records with distilled water and the recommended concoction of the month from Audio or Stereo Review.

That Dual 1219 was a workhorse of a TT, eventually sporting a Shure M91E, and they endured three kids and a spouse who didn't respect them or my records as much as I thought they should. Lots of yelling those days. Finally the motor bearings gave out and literally fell out one day, but by then I had a brand new CD player and motivated by the loss of a working turntable, rarely bought LPs after that. Eventually, I bought a semi-automatic Technics direct drive table, but never had much motivation to use it. CDs were more convenient, more durable, significantly quieter, didn't require flipping, and could be remotely controlled.

So for the past 30 years, my remaining vinyl has been largely neglected, packed in boxes that required major effort to move, open, and select a disc. Occasionally I'd do a nostalgia buy off ebay or at an estate sale, but after I'd get it home and put it on the platter I could barely get through the first side, bothered as I was with the gritty, snappy, noisy background from start to finish.

Then about a year ago I pulled out some of my LPs for old time's sake and to test the phono input on the HK 3490, and you know, they sounded pretty good. They sounded like well-cared for records could sound. No, they weren't as pristine sounding as a CD (or music file) and they lacked the dynamic range and low distortion, but they were pleasant enough, almost charming. So I played my old albums a little more frequently until the age and my general neglect of the Technics table made it obvious it was underperforming and unable to get the best out of the material.

So then, the question became "Should I get a better turntable and see how good this can be?" Oddly, I found myself answering, "Sure, why not?"

[DavidF]

I've never been without a vinyl setup in my system, it's function merely to give me access to the music on the accumulated discs, so a rather modest Thorens/Shure/Shure (beryllium again) Conrad-Johnson PV9 rig is still in use. I don't play vinyl every day. With extended digital play between I am always pleasantly reminded of that indefinable vinyl sound, especially with all analog processing. Within moments my tolerance of ticks and pops returns, but the inner groove distortion usually still gets noticed. These days my Denon 5900/Bryston DAC generally satisfies. Most all-analog vinyl recordings are old, old, and they will never be a big presence in the market again, I would assume. But anyone who has vinyl in storage would probably enjoy it again, if playing it can be arranged without too great expense.

I can echo your sentiments. Though I don't use it frequently there has always been a TT set up to use. Seems when I do use it I tend to pull a lot of albums for a listen and the digital player gets a rest.

I do catch myself wanting to skip over a cut or two once in while. It takes some time to adjust back to "album-oriented" listening of music. In other words, waiting through some filler cuts for the better cuts, or else get my butt up and move the stylus.

Lately I have been trying to reconcile the benefits of original digital recording cut to vinyl. It is, perhaps, incredible that many of the original analog tapes are still in usuable condition. It is unlikely however that many will be put at continued risk in making dubs for lathe cutting. So it makes sense from the original master archivist's perspective to allow analog-to-digital conversions under the assumption that digital could be stored and used for mastering with less anxiety compared to tape integrity. So is the future of vinyl to be limited to digital source and what benefits are there to convert digital back to analog in the vinyl context?

[Wornears]

I've been playing and buying vinyl since 1977 and haven't stopped. Working in a record store while attending college in that era will do that to you. I've bought and sold and moved various turtables over the ensuing years, and sold my first one, a Dual 510 from '77, last year. I'm satisfied with the Pioneer PL-L1000 linear track unit I use these days. The music has always taken precedent over the hardware for me anyway. I make it a point to play two to ten albums a weekend because I enjoy slowing down, taking the time investment, and discovering (again) why I got the album in the first place.

We're in the process of "downsizing" and moving approximately 30-ft of LPs is going to be a challenge, so some culling will have to happen. My kids have always been puzzled by my vinyl addiction (not my wife thank goodness!) when it is so easy to use a CD (from years ago) or now download music. I heard my chosen music media train leave the station back in 1993 when my then-young daughter saw me taking a record out of its jacket and then cuing it up. She exclaimed, "That's be biggest CD I've ever seen!"

[speakerdave]

. . . . So is the future of vinyl to be limited to digital source and what benefits are there to convert digital back to analog in the vinyl context?

There may be some benefits. I really don't know a lot about it. Digital masters are not subject to the same limitations as the standard CD format, but whether it can be said nothing is lost in the transfer from analog I don't know. I have not undertaken any careful listening tests comparing formats, and I don't know who has. It would be a difficult task because there are so many variables in the reproduction chain. The early digital mastering of classical music that began toward the end of the vinyl era seems rather banal, but that technology has probably been superceded several times since then.

For me, looking at recording and storage technology as I understand it, the sensible solution would be the availability of SACD players with well designed discrete analog circuits. That is, players that cost less than a fancy wedding. The eventual solution will probably be in downloadable files and computer/players with the software capability of handling multiple formats. That would allow advancement in formats that is now prevented by the installed base of physical players that are not upgradable.

The interest in vinyl should I think be recognized as an announcement that the storage and playback technology of CD's needs upgrading. Judging from the audio equipment catalogs people are buying DACs like crazy. But--since SACD signal cannot be obtained for a DAC, the DAC strategy runs up against the limitations of the redbook format. So, it's possible that most people, who want to spend less than $1000 on anything, can get better access to a quality digital master with contemporary vinyl than with redbook CD's. They already know the chip-laden analog circuits in their digital players are third rate.

[Mr. Widget]

The interest in vinyl should I think be recognized as an announcement that the storage and playback technology of CD's needs upgrading.

I don't think the sonic benefits, real or imagined, of vinyl are the driving force behind the resurgence of vinyl. I think there are those who do enjoy the "analog sound", but many are drawn to a nostalgia or access to unavailable music, or even the novelty of spinning big black discs.

I certainly agree with the importance mentioned by some of the convenience of digital... Hell I rarely spin CDs as they are too much bother...

I do play mostly digital redbook files through my Bryston DAC which sound pretty damned good, but I do think good analog often has better spatial information than most Redbook digital files. Of course this is only important if your listening is done in the sweet spot and your speakers image well.


Widget