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Thread: Soundcraftsmen, same as the Hafler?

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    Senior Member still4given's Avatar
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    Soundcraftsmen, same as the Hafler?

    Hey guys,

    Since we are having so much success with my Haflers, i thought I would take a look at my Soundcraftsmen PCR800. It seems to be doing the same thing so I checked the volt on the two caps in there. One reads 87VDC, 0VAC. The other reads 57VDC, 26VAC. I Also checked the DC voltage as I shut off the power switch. On the good one it reads high 80s and then starts dropping. The bad one goes instantly to 0 volts as soon as the switch is turned off. Looks like a bad cap to me. Now I pulled the caps and they are 11,000MFD 75V 85C. I can't seem to find 11000MFS. Do you think 10000 wil work OK? The next step up seems to be 18000 and those cans will not fit in the spot these go.

    Thanks, Terry

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    Smile

    Terry:

    Have You checked Your line voltage?, You are overdriving the 75V caps with 87VDC.

    IMO, the 10,000 will work, YouŽll have 10% less reserve, but if You donŽt overdrive the amps YouŽll be OK.

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    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Hi, again, Terry....

    Who's the manufacturer on those ones? Track them down via Google.

    Also, is Soundcraftsmen still in business? I'd be talkin' to their service folks about replacements, and what the voltage SHOULD be on those caps. It's also likely shown on the schematic for that model.

    Here, again, replace both caps, not just the bad one.

    Sprague and Mallory make 15K at 75V, CDE has a 14K at 75V listed, and United Chem-Con makes both 10K and 15K at 100V. Same screw-terminal "Computer Grade," yes?

    I'm just looking at the Newark paper catalog here. See them online and Allied, Mouser, others....

    Panasonic shows a 10K at 100V at Digikey...
    Last edited by Zilch; 10-06-2004 at 08:20 PM.

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    Senior Member still4given's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
    Terry:

    Have You checked Your line voltage?, You are overdriving the 75V caps with 87VDC.

    IMO, the 10,000 will work, YouŽll have 10% less reserve, but if You donŽt overdrive the amps YouŽll be OK.
    Thanks Alex,

    Yes I thought about the fact that I am above 75VDC. I Also wondered because this amp uses 8 MOSFETs and my Hafler uses 12. I thought it was odd that this one would need more voltage. Could there be something else that is driving the voltage so high?


    Who's the manufacturer on those ones? Track them down via Google.

    Also, is Soundcraftsmen still in business? I'd be talkin' to their service folks about replacements, and what the voltage SHOULD be on those caps. It's also likely shown on the schematic for that model.

    Here, again, replace both caps, not just the bad one.

    Sprague and Mallory make 15K at 75V, CDE has a 14K at 75V listed, and United Chem-Con makes both 10K and 15K at 100V. Same screw-terminal "Computer Grade," yes?

    I'm just looking at the Newark paper catalog here. See them online and Allied, Mouser, others....

    Panasonic shows a 10K at 100V at Digikey...



    Funny, the caps are made by the same company, ElCap.

    The sid of the caps says;
    El Cap
    40312125
    11000MFD 75VDC
    85C USA 8419

    I have done a search before trying to find a schematic for this amp. All I found was a few other guys looking for the same thing. I look some more.

    Blessings, Terry

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    Junior Member Ski's Avatar
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    If you PM me your address and promise to throw a few bucks toward the site when you can, I'll send you a copy of the schematics. I'm running a bridged pair right now and hate to see somebody go without.
    Make it Funky!

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    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Terry: 19th week of 1984. 20+ years.....

    Could be the voltage is so high because there's no load on the transformer. If one side of supply is dead, perhaps the standby loading isn't there. I wouldn't expect that to be allowing so much rise in voltage as to push the filter caps that far out of operating range, but maybe....

    Ski: What's it say the DC supply voltages are?

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    Junior Member Ski's Avatar
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    Just because I have one doesn't mean I can read it.
    Make it Funky!

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    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    ??

    [It's Funky.... ]
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    Last edited by Zilch; 10-06-2004 at 11:24 PM.

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    Senior Member still4given's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ski
    If you PM me your address and promise to throw a few bucks toward the site when you can, I'll send you a copy of the schematics. I'm running a bridged pair right now and hate to see somebody go without.
    Hey Ski, That would be awsome!

    You could fax it to me if you like.

    Fax 310 865-9934

    I'll PM my address too if that will make it easier. Your the best!


    It will be my pleasure to contribute to this site. It has become my favorite hang-out.

    Blessings, Terry

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    Hi Terry

    I'm really enjoying all this electronic "who dunnit" stuff .

    Do a search for a Mallory/CDE 11000 mfd(uf) cap using this part number ; ( CG113U075X4C )

    That is a current part number for a Mallory/CDE Computer Grade 75WVDC ( 100V Surge ) electrolytic. It's one of their "CG" models . It appears as a "special order" item here in Canada at ELECTROSONIC; Mallory/CDE 11000uf cap. You can see that it's @ 3"W x 4"H . Maybe you can hunt it down south of the border from a US based supplier.

    Oh, here's another another 11000 mfd CDE from the CGR series.

    Hope this helps <. EarlK

    BTW - Electrosonics "Search Engine/Mainframe - Database" is woefully inadequate for the amount of traffic on it . ie - hard to get through at certain times of day .
    Last edited by Earl K; 10-07-2004 at 08:33 AM.

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    Senior Member still4given's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Earl K
    Hi Terry

    I'm really enjoying all this electronic "who dunnit" stuff .

    Do a search for a Mallory/CDE 11000 mfd(uf) cap using this part number ; ( CG113U075X4C )

    That is a current part number for a Mallory/CDE Computer Grade 75WVDC ( 100V Surge ) electrolytic. It's one of their "CG" models . It appears as a "special order" item here in Canada at ELECTROSONIC; Mallory/CDE 11000uf cap. You can see that it's @ 3"W x 4"H . Maybe you can hunt it down south of the border from a US based supplier.

    Oh, here's another another 11000 mfd CDE from the CGR series.

    Hope this helps <. EarlK
    Thanks Earl. Hey that's my Dad's name.

    I measured the caps this morning and they are 2" X 3 1/4". There is a printed circuit board that bolts to the screw terminals of both caps so I will have to find some that are the same dimensions or they won't work. Any taller and the cover won't fit. Any wider and the holes won't line up. This may turn out to be tougher than I had hoped. I never thought about the life expectancy of caps when acquiring older SS amps. Seems like that is a real factor. Obviously, physical size of these things is a pretty big factor too.

    This cap seems to be the only one I've found that will fit and is close to the proper values. I just don't know how much 10000uF vs. 11000uF will affect things.

    Blessings, Terry

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    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Agreeing with Alex,

    I'd say the 10Kuf will work; in theory, you'll have a little less "headroom" at high volumes, is all. It won't collapse, rather, it'll just start souding nasty. We don't know how much margin is built into the design. It may be just fine.

    Over time, aluminum electrolytics have gotten somewhat smaller. I don't understand how; it seems to defy the laws of nature. Perhaps newer materials and methodologies explains it. In this case, if a 15Kuf will fit, I'd be tempted to use it, but I'd also be trying to get the recommended part from the manufacturer (or their successor,) if available....
    Last edited by Zilch; 10-07-2004 at 12:05 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member still4given's Avatar
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    Yeah, if I could find a 15000uF 100VDC that is the right physical dimension that would be awesome! I'm going to keep searching. If anyone can find them I would be in you debt.

    Blessings, Terry

    EDIT:

    I found these Panasonic caps .

    It looks like there are a few choices there that will fit physically. Do any of you guys have experience with Panasonic caps? Are they good quality?

    Thanks, Terry
    Last edited by still4given; 10-07-2004 at 12:48 PM.

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    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    United Chem-con, all your size:

    KMH series, 12K @ 80V 105° C (expensive)

    U32D Series, 12K @ 80V 105° C

    U36D Series, 12K or 18K @ 80V, 10K @ 100V 85° C

    Check stock from their Home Page

    Heh, heh. I was going to Panasonic next. Yeah, they're fine....

    There's your 12K @ 100V, Military temp 105° C. Not cheap, probably. See if they make the same in 85° C for better pricing.

    Yup. Your 15K @100V is in the G-AA Series, 85° C

    Remember, we don't KNOW that you need 100V yet; 80V may be fine, still higher than what was in it....
    Last edited by Zilch; 10-07-2004 at 05:50 PM.

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    Senior Member still4given's Avatar
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    Thanks Zilch,

    I've read that raising the MFD will give better bass response but that it will stress the bridge rectifier at start up due to the larger capacity. Any idea of what can be done to beef up the bridge if that is a problem?

    Thanks, Terry

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