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Thread: JBL Master Reference Monitor

  1. #1471
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthetic View Post
    You mention that biquad implementations of IIRs are often imprecise. Do FIRs not suffer from this at all? More to the point, is it safe to assume that rephase predictions will be exactly reflected at the output of an OpenDRC unit?
    Hi Synthetic
    FIR precision is linear and depends on the number of taps relative to the sampling frequency.
    It is also predictable and rePhase will show you exactly what you will get with the red curve, which is basically an FFT of the FIR.
    So if the convolution engine does its job correctly (which is the case with the openDRC which implements a very straightforward time based convolution), then that is exactly what you will get on the output.

    The rephase settings above have format set to "32 bits floats mono (.txt)". I could be mistaken, but to get miniDSP to load it I think it needs to be changed to "32 bits IEEE-754 mono (.bin)".

    Yes, my bad, I used the txt format to export the impulse to HOLM and do the comparison screenshot.

    Gotta do the LF part next !


  2. #1472
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    Hi Synthetic
    FIR precision is linear and depends on the number of taps relative to the sampling frequency.
    It is also predictable and rePhase will show you exactly what you will get with the red curve, which is basically an FFT of the FIR.
    So if the convolution engine does its job correctly (which is the case with the openDRC which implements a very straightforward time based convolution), then that is exactly what you will get on the output.


    Awesome. Thanks for the education. Looking forward to the updated LF.

  3. #1473
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    LF part done, HF part slightly modified to compensate for the AD/DA response.
    Thanks again grumpy for the measurements!

    This should be pretty accurate now.
    The relative levels between sections might not be exact, I cannot verify this right now, but it should be within +/-0.1dB

    Old settings in red, new ones in green:
    Name:  rephase_modified.jpg
Views: 1360
Size:  154.3 KB

    The HF section had +/-1dB errors, whereas the LF sections had +/-0.5dB errors.
    The way BSS constant Q EQ implementation differs from theoretical one is a bit of a surprise/disappointment.
    Shelving Q/slopes are also not what they should be, as can clearly be seen.

    HF part:
    Code:
    rePhase settings
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    d5Abdcd6DX3PP4xNY0csh/1q/EzuDPPoYyyEK83br+bf8dHD13fHd7BwxTrd/khJHLsWSFX3tlfx
    5MwhMfqRdeiAAPOuFpW8sy7tmBDh439HrH6H
    LF part:
    Code:
    rePhase settings
    eNrtW0tv4zYQ/isGTy1iEyT1zrFoDi026OPSw9YQaJu2iUikK9HxJkH+e4ek5JVlb7DbBD1kCRgW
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    2/aL8Sd37Pih3GkJJm74zqYrUhrHfcpiJZsu+3BczNExmq7pmLGAxoNUK33wS9pypdDzvwXjY3g=

  4. #1474
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    I updated the google doc with these new settings, and added a few other things and a "cloning" section.
    I might as well withdraw this document as it is only really usable if you have an original BSS/Crown unit, or a FIR-capable unit... (and as of today that basically means an openDRC)

  5. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    I might as well withdraw this document as it is only really usable if you have an original BSS/Crown unit, or a FIR-capable unit... (and as of today that basically means an openDRC)
    The new miniDSP 2x4HD is also advertised as FIR-capable. I don't know enough about FIR to know if it has enough taps for this project, but if so it's an inexpensive, small, and quiet one-box solution.

    https://www.minidsp.com/products/min...minidsp-2x4-hd

  6. #1476
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    Not enough taps for the LF section, so it has to be assisted with a few biquads.
    miniDSP uses proportional Q EQs, and you also have the possibility to load your own biquad coefficients.
    It should be pretty accurate, but again...

    https://www.minidsp.com/forum/opendr...start=45#24625
    It would probably be a better idea to convert to proportional Q the modified constant Q values found in the new rePhase settings for those 8 EQ points.

    I *hate* IIR crossovers and their noisy/unreliable/capricious biquad implementations
    FIR is the future, for sure, and not only for linear-phase crossovers.

  7. #1477
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    The high frequencies look better now.

    Before
    Name:  LRPreAdjustment.jpg
Views: 1322
Size:  74.7 KB
    After
    Name:  LRPostAdjustment.jpg
Views: 1358
Size:  75.0 KB

  8. #1478
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    There is still a dip around 6kHz, but less pronounced indeed.
    Do you hear an improvement?

  9. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    There is still a dip around 6kHz, but less pronounced indeed.
    Do you hear an improvement?
    I think it sounds noticeably better, but it could definitely be a case of "I swapped this interconnect and it's a night and day difference!"

  10. #1480
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    new settings in red, old ones in blue.

    on-axis ~1m

    Name:  M2 high MOD on axis.jpg
Views: 1215
Size:  64.1 KB

    off-axis ~1m, ~30°

    Name:  M2 high MOD off axis.jpg
Views: 1241
Size:  64.6 KB

    The overall response got better/flatter, but the dip around 6.5kHz is still there.

    It is also there in these JBL measurements (in black) but it is almost completely gone in the averaged one (in red) :

    Name:  in room 24 to 516 seats.jpg
Views: 1259
Size:  46.8 KB

  11. #1481
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I had a nice conversation with G.T. over the New Years…The latest generation of waveguides/horns are "prefect". They don't pinch at the top end like the "almost perfect" M2 and 4367 do. I would imagine they will be thoroughly "protected" and "patented". I believe the first examples will be coming out in some in-wall systems.
    Still waiting for this new waveguide which surpasses M2 & 4367.

  12. #1482
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnhere View Post
    Still waiting for this new waveguide which surpasses M2 & 4367.
    Why are you waiting?!
    Take a look at the SCL-3 and the SCL-4 in-wall speakers.

  13. #1483
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    Take a look at the SCL-3 and the SCL-4 in-wall speakers.
    Links added.

  14. #1484
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    My god, my god it's already there, at first I just thought it will be a new separate waveguide which we could buy it to diy (with the d2430k driver)... I'm now kinda depressed, this new waveguide looks so nice and big, and it could compete with the Array vertical waveguide, the 1400 Array vertical waveguide has the best imaging in all JBL lines. But the compression drivers in 1400 is not top of line, my current dream is a brand new deisgned vertical (or the SCL kind) waveguide that suits with the 2430.

  15. #1485
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    The LSR 7 series has pattern control out to 20kHz, owing to its use of a 1/2" exit CD with the M2 waveguide technology. What is "perfect[ed]" about the in-walls, which use the same CD as the LSR 7 series? They should have no problem with pattern control at the HF anyway.
    Name:  LSR708i Spin.jpg
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