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Thread: JBL Master Reference Monitor

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin View Post
    i agree with this very few hi enders will want a crown digital amp with a digital BSS dsp unit
    True, but this high-ender is interested in results, not to necessarily have the most esoteric and exotic equipment around.
    S4700 owner.

  2. #47
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_72 View Post
    True, but this high-ender is interested in results, not to necessarily have the most esoteric and exotic equipment around.
    I agree completely!

    That said, while I may make measurements in my system set up, I measure results with my ears and not graphs or theoretical ideals.



    Widget

  3. #48
    Senior Member Valentin's Avatar
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    its nice to start with a theorical ideal

    it makes things easyer to dail in, Harmans team has done a great job in geting the ball very close in many difrent models


    you can not say that of many loudspeaker companys

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_72 View Post
    True, but this high-ender is interested in results, not to necessarily have the most esoteric and exotic equipment around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I agree completely!

    That said, while I may make measurements in my system set up, I measure results with my ears and not graphs or theoretical ideals.



    Widget
    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin View Post
    its nice to start with a theorical ideal

    it makes things easyer to dail in, Harmans team has done a great job in geting the ball very close in many difrent models


    you can not say that of many loudspeaker companys

    Yes, Harman has been working very hard at this. I also agree that more and more of Harman's JBL-specific products are closer to the mark right out of the box, and the proliferation of products aimed at getting even closer shows an intent to keep improving. Things don't always work perfectly (witness Bass-Q), but Harman/JBL is putting the $$$ and effort into innovative efforts that improve the listening experience.

    These tools are far better for users like me who aren't going to bother with a soldering gun, a bag of caps, resistors, inductors, etc., modeling software, etc. because it's just a huge frickin' waste of our time and money for the inferior outcome we'd produce. I'll gladly pay for the tools as they get better and better. Especially as JBL moves towards Harman's goal of pervasive horns for the consumer side of the brand, these tools become more sophisticated and useful.

    Widget and I agree----that while measurements are important in helping us set things up, I actually want to like the way it sounds more than like the way it graphs (or looks). In this case, the ears always have it.
    Out.

  5. #50
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin View Post
    its nice to start with a theorical ideal

    it makes things easyer to dail in, Harmans team has done a great job in geting the ball very close in many difrent models


    you can not say that of many loudspeaker companys
    Agreed...

    My point was, I've heard simple two-way time aligned minimum diffraction speakers that image far worse than say the 1400 Arrays which are not time aligned, have a 14" driver running far too high in frequency, certainly are far from minimum diffraction, blah, blah, blah...


    Widget

  6. #51
    Senior Member Valentin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Agreed...

    My point was, I've heard simple two-way time aligned minimum diffraction speakers that image far worse than say the 1400 Arrays which are not time aligned, have a 14" driver running far too high in frequency, certainly are far from minimum diffraction, blah, blah, blah...


    Widget
    Yes yes yes

  7. #52
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    , ......., but Harman/JBL is putting the $$$ and effort into innovative efforts that improve the listening experience.

    These tools are far better for users like me who aren't going to bother with a soldering gun, a bag of caps, resistors, inductors, etc., modeling software, etc. because it's just a huge frickin' waste of our time and money for the inferior outcome we'd produce. I'll gladly pay for the tools as they get better and better. Especially as JBL moves towards Harman's goal of pervasive horns for the consumer side of the brand, these tools become more sophisticated and useful.

    Widget and I agree----that while measurements are important in helping us set things up, I actually want to like the way it sounds more than like the way it graphs (or looks). In this case, the ears always have it.
    Hi Titanium Dome,

    I can agree with you that with D2430K driver JBL has made, may be the greatest innovation in last over fifty years i the compression driver technology, introducing 'two working-in-parallel annular diaphragms' with appropriated phase plug in order to improve harmonic distortions while not scarifying driver efficiency (look at the attached figures).

    But I can not agree with You that some kind of objective measure of quality is of less importance, and I believe that in next months more available details about that would become available, so staying in belief that such data would confirm high level of quality of the driver (do not forget that, now, D2430K driver is almost (TWO) THREE TIMES more expensive then BMS 4590P driver.

    If talking 'about our-self relish', for me it is quite 'understandable' that a person can enjoy in buying or possessing something, but from my point of view, much more pleasure is , first to understand (technical and scientific point of something) the way it operates, and after trying to reproduce (applying mentioned knowledge),here, ourself system (or part of the system) that would satisfy out expectation, sometime comparable to the system produced by such huge brand as JBL. As I have remembered, some of the greatest JBL designers, were "coming from" the hobbyist-field.

    It would make me sad, if Harman-JBL would decide to "close their doors" of selling drivers alone (not as built in the system only).

    Regards
    Ivica
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    Widget and I agree----that while measurements are important in helping us set things up, I actually want to like the way it sounds more than like the way it graphs (or looks). In this case, the ears always have it.
    There are alot of people out there that hear their music via plots. We've been over this dozens of times. I would not be the least bit surprised if someone hasn't already posterized the M2 plot and hung it on their wall.

    Us asking "Yes, but how does it sound?" is meaningless to them. If it doesn't plot good, then it can't be good.

  9. #54
    Senior Member Valentin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    There are alot of people out there that hear their music via plots. We've been over this dozens of times. I would not be the least bit surprised if someone hasn't already posterized the M2 plot and hung it on their wall.

    Us asking "Yes, but how does it sound?" is meaningless to them. If it doesn't plot good, then it can't be good.
    All extreems are Bad

    But as i se it there is alot more buying being done by reading tecnical or the other extrem of super exotic components cables xo parts etc etc oganic sound etc etc

    Than the pure sound

    we all have bias in some way or other

    Raining on this M2 monitor just because it measures theoricaly excelent is just as speculative

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin View Post
    Raining on this M2 monitor just because it measures theoricaly excelent is just as speculative
    I think JBL Pro covered all the bases this time around. There isn't a whole lot to whine about here.



    Well ok, someone is bound to bitch and moan that it's only flat on the bottom end to forty instead of twenty.


    Word is that the 2216Nd, first used in the S4700, was used in the M2 as well because everyone loved the way it sounded.

  11. #56
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    The chart only goes to 20k. Dammit JBL!!!!!!

    Thankfully as I get older I start to look for the good instead of always pointing out the bad.

    Let the masses say what they will, but I want a pair in my listening room!!

    The config for the room has got to be just about the best way I can think of to use a great DSP unit. People are getting better with this technology and it does have a positive impact on todays systems.

    I can think of no one better to bring it to us than JBL!
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    Always fun learning more.......

  12. #57
    Senior Member Valentin's Avatar
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    Name:  602753_10200342304151198_1827867058_n.jpg
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    Charles Sprinkle and Allan Devantier at Sony's number one scoring stage

    congrats


    Use Case
    Performance Requirements
    New Technologies to Meet Design Challenges
    Low Frequency Transducer
    Low TCR Wire
    Dual Gap, Dual Nd Magnet Motor
    Cone Geometry Optimization
    High Frequency Compression Transducer
    Dual Diaphragm Compression Driver
    Extended Frequency Range
    Higher Output
    Lower Distortion
    High Frequency Waveguide / Horn
    Pattern Control in Orthogonal and Oblique Planes
    New Design Methodology
    Extended Upper pattern Control Frequency Smooth Frequency Response
    Optimized Directivity Transition to Woofer
    System Integration
    DSP / Active Crossover and EQ
    Directivity Index Optimization
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    Results / Discussion
    Frequency Response / Directivity SPL / Dynamic Range

  13. #58
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Interesting pic there Valentin , its not as big as I had imagined.


    Regarding DSP control of such a system , surely this is just a more powerful way of achieving what a passive network sets out to do.
    There is of course the discussion as to whether it is desireable to have such digital processing in your signal path at all. I expect that all things taken into account this system will sound darn good by any standards. They are selling to a tough crowd , folks that have to use these all day long for the work that they do. I doubt if JBL would get much mileage with this system if it was below par.
    Having worked in manufacturing I would also suggest that the JBL team will have some tame 'Golden Ears ' that they can go to to double check that all is well in a real world situation. Its not all done on computer sims and anechoic tests. A product like this has to stand up and be counted.

    As you will have gathered I am super enthusiastic about the D2 , and in time once there are some of these out in the field and the reports start appearing on the net I will eat my hat if there is not a global thumbs up on the system in general.

    Again , do some deep digging re the VTX system , you will read and hear comments about how clear / undistorted / articulate / powerful blah blah. Remember these VTX modules are about $15 k per so an array is not chump change. The tour hire guys are buying these by the boat load and they dont do that for no reason.

    Exciting times guys , it may be a while but I'm keen to get an earful of these. M

  14. #59
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Something hit me looking at the pic...

    It's the modern day version of the older 15" 2-way cabaret systems of years ago.

    Well, at least to me.....

    Regards, Ron
    JBL Pro for home use!

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I agree completely!

    That said, while I may make measurements in my system set up, I measure results with my ears and not graphs or theoretical ideals.



    Widget
    Cool, and same here. Ears are important.
    S4700 owner.

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