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Thread: JBL Master Reference Monitor

  1. #16
    Senior Member JuniorJBL's Avatar
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    I sure would like to hear them. I bet they sound nice.

    Nice to see a really nice monitor come from Pro again!

    Not that LSR's are bad, they just seem to be the same thing everyone elses stuff is.

    These are 4430 cool!
    Always fun learning more.......

  2. #17
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    So nice that M2 post reopened,i'm waiting for it
    How will it be comparing with 9900?
    Frequency Range:20 Hz - 40 kHz ??? +-3db or +-6db???
    Without utra-high,can it work well?
    46 lover

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post
    How will it be comparing with 9900?
    Well, it's pretty obvious that the M2 has the nicer looking graph. That has to count for something.
    Quote Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post
    Without utra-high,can it work well?
    I sincerely hope you are trying to be funny...


    As far as the S9900 and its "lean" low frequency response... it is real easy to apply a bit of EQ at the tuning frequency of the enclosure and fill it in a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorJBL View Post
    I sure would like to hear them. I bet they sound nice.

    Nice to see a really nice monitor come from Pro again!

    These are 4430 cool!
    Agreed!

  4. #19
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Well, it's pretty obvious that the M2 has the nicer looking graph. That has to count for something. I sincerely hope you are trying to be funny...
    Oh,funny or not is not so important here,i just notice that D2 is very similar to BMS,but BMS can not reach 40K,so i have this doubt.
    46 lover

  5. #20
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    Very nice system! I should have waited, lol! But, I'm guessing I probably couldn't afford these...
    S4700 owner.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Valentin's Avatar
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    any price estimate


  7. #22
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    A Different Look

    I'm often interested in the stuff no one is talking about, so here's a quick look at some keen aspects of this Master Reference Monitor System.

    Cabinet Design

    From the front, the nearly 20"Wx50"H cabinet seems big. That's over 4' tall, while a K2 S9900 comes in at 22'Wx48"H. The M2 weighs 129 lb. while the K2 is 182 lb. A partial explanation for the K2 being so much heavier is that looked at from the side, it's deeper than the M2. The M2 is less than 10" deep, while the K2 and its rounded enclosure go back nearly 14".

    Of course the M2 is a very plain looking black cabinet without the added weight of veneer, and unlike the K2, it is not simply a floor stander, but it's built for wall mounting, behind screen mounting, and soffit mounting, too, so every pound counts. That's also why the ports are in front. In addition, all the electronics are outside the enclosure, so the weight of crossovers is removed as well.


    A Little Synthesis® in its DNA?

    You can buy a K2, Everest II, S4700, etc. and mate it to any amp, preamp, or receiver you want. With a little trial and error, you can probably find a combo that pleases you quite a bit after you've discarded some equipment that just didn't gel together into harmonious bliss.

    When you get a true system, like JBL Synthesis®, the amps, I/O units, and processor are predetermined to a large degree, and the system is brought into a harmonious whole through the DACS or ARCOS calibration that knows every component and has the data and crunching power necessary to integrate everything. This is in contrast to systems that use Audyssey, etc. where a unit that is essentially blind to the other components in the system uses--depending on the level of processing power--its number crunching to make guesses about how to "fix" the room-related problems it discovers.

    So it would appear JBL Pro is taking some of the Synthesis® systems thinking into the professional project studio, music recording control room, and post production control room.

    An Integrated, Tunable System with Room Optimization

    Hardware: Amplification
    The pair of Crown I-Tech 500HD amplifiers provide both optimal power and built-in floating point DSP. This allows easy integration with the BSS units (below) to set crossovers that can even be room-specific, as well as optimizing room integration and power.

    Hardware: Processing
    The BSS BLU-160 unit (or other BSS Soundweb London processor) has all the horses needed to do the computational math even for a very difficult room. Since it already knows the M2 and the I-Tech 5000HD, it's primed and ready to apply maximum effort to system integration and optimization with the room.

    Software: Harman System Architect
    Harman System Architect is a computer software program in which device-specific plug-ins can be planted. Thus, JBL Pro can load in speaker and amplifier plug-ins specific to this system. HSA was written from the ground up, Harman claims, though I suspect London Architect had a lot to do with it. The objective is to accommodate all the requirements for every link in the signal chain. Harman's tweaks add M2/I-Tech specificity, and as it's said, "Knowledge is power" even if you're a floating point DSP.

    Conclusion

    The transducers, power handling, and frequency range of the M2 are fascinating points of discussion, but for me, the flexibility of installation and the systems thinking that went into the design are far more intriguing. This is not just a new, great studio monitor, it's a whole systems approach that elevates the entire chain.

    Sure some will balk at the cost involved in getting the whole system. Many will believe that they can take the raw loudspeaker and use other components of their choosing to do just as well or better than JBL Pro, and do it for less. There are in fact a very few who can, but there are many, many more who cannot.

    My Synthesis® experience has been instructive in this regard. I've been in a lot of home theaters with more expensive equipment: the greatest amps with the most fantastic speakers controlled by $20,000 processors placed in $100,000 rooms that were given $2,500 calibrations. Yet I've never heard a single one that could match the system integration and room optimization of a well done Synthesis® system, even a midrange set up like mine.

    So, were I ever to go the M2 route, the preferred path for me would be the whole system or nothing. I'll bet it would be spectacular!!
    Out.

  8. #23
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Already posted?

    http://www.jblpro.com/products/recor.../M2/index.html

    (duh, yes... post #1. Either I missed some of the detail sub-pages or they were added recently.)

    Guessing a lot of the K2/M2 weight difference is woofer magnet/frame.

    Regarding the BLU160 processor shown in the product system info, I'd
    also guess that the processing for a "basic" M2 pair would not require a separate
    BLU unit ($$$ just by themselves), what with the Crown amps having BLU processor
    capability built in.

    It will be interesting to see when the product pages are filled in, package/prices announced,
    and less speculation is "necessary"

  9. #24
    Senior Member JuniorJBL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    So, were I ever to go the M2 route, the preferred path for me would be the whole system or nothing. I'll bet it would be spectacular!!
    I have already been thinkin about what I need to sell to get the whole system.


    They sure are cool. I also do not think (for me anyway) that this news would not be quite as exciting had this come from Harman luxury audio group, I kind of expect it.

    Also looks like retail is about $24-25,000 or so there abouts with the amps and processor. Not all that bad really. I would think this would be the way to go if you really want to overcome a room and it's problems.

    Hummmm what to sell!!
    Always fun learning more.......

  10. #25
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    I always prefer system solutions i.e. system already optimised so that when results are more predictable and consistent. I also am thinking what i need to sell to get the full system M2 with Crown i-Tech.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    .

    I am kind of surprised more people didn't jump on the offer to get a pair of the D2's. I guess they are waiting for the factory seconds to start showing up on eBay.

    Faston connectors... definitely something I don't associate with a two thousand dollar transducer.
    What I would also like to try is to get the D2 and integrate it into my 4345s... are they 2 inch drivers? Would they fit the 2311 horn?

  12. #27
    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post
    Oh,funny or not is not so important here,i just notice that D2 is very similar to BMS,but BMS can not reach 40K,so i have this doubt.
    Martin , please , the JBL has no similarity to the BMS in its method of operation. Yes they both have annular diaphragms but thats where the similarity ends.

    Once again , the BMS has an annular mid dia that feeds backwards and integrates with the output from a coventional forward firing HF dia . These two dias are fed via a coventional crossover network to make it all happen.

    The JBL does not work this way at all. It has two dias that play equal and opposite to each other. They push towards each other and then pull apart. Look at this cross section..

    Name:  PSWJBLVTXFigure2.jpg
Views: 3753
Size:  186.5 KB

    I suppose that this method alone gives rise to very efficient compression ratios meaning that in use the dias are less stressed mechanically and therefore the response can be tailored as required.
    It seems to me that this is similar in a way to the Heil AMT in that there is a multiplication factor of the motion of the dia , in this case times 2.

    Of course that is not the whole story but it is clear that the JBL development team involved with this have raised the bar significantly. It is not often that you will see a frequency response as ruler flat as they are publishing , regardless of how it is achieved.

    800Hz crossover FYI

  13. #28
    Senior Member Valentin's Avatar
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    Guessing a lot of the K2/M2 weight difference is woofer magnet/frame.
    INDEED de 1500al magnet stucture is at least 35 pound while the neo magnet are very lite


    bss blu-16 is needed if you go with crown none procesor amps like the MA5000i

    if you buy the it 5000hd you get a bss unit integreted in the amp


    Also looks like retail is about $24-25,000 or so there abouts with the amps and processor. Not all that bad really

  14. #29
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Guessing a lot of the K2/M2 weight difference is woofer magnet/frame.
    Yes between the woofer and the compression driver. I have 2266's and they are as light as a feather compared to a 2235. The DD Neo make a huge difference in weight.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  15. #30
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    Martin , please , the JBL has no similarity to the BMS in its method of operation. Yes they both have annular diaphragms but thats where the similarity ends.

    Once again , the BMS has an annular mid dia that feeds backwards and integrates with the output from a coventional forward firing HF dia . These two dias are fed via a coventional crossover network to make it all happen.

    The JBL does not work this way at all. It has two dias that play equal and opposite to each other. They push towards each other and then pull apart. Look at this cross section..

    Name:  PSWJBLVTXFigure2.jpg
Views: 3753
Size:  186.5 KB

    I suppose that this method alone gives rise to very efficient compression ratios meaning that in use the dias are less stressed mechanically and therefore the response can be tailored as required.
    It seems to me that this is similar in a way to the Heil AMT in that there is a multiplication factor of the motion of the dia , in this case times 2.

    Of course that is not the whole story but it is clear that the JBL development team involved with this have raised the bar significantly. It is not often that you will see a frequency response as ruler flat as they are publishing , regardless of how it is achieved.

    800Hz crossover FYI
    Thanks for your detail explaination
    46 lover

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