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Thread: JBL Master Reference Monitor

  1. #1651
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    Factory file is a macro which can be used in any design and configuration.

    The macro is password protected but that is not an issue as you should not change the presets of the M2.

  2. #1652
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Paul,

    Have you given the though of building or purchasing a server type enclosure? When I was looking into building some sub18's after reading Barry's impressions on his thread I felt I would have to do something about the fan noise of another DCi. A server cabinet design should work given how loud they can get.

    Thanks,
    Scott

  3. #1653
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srm51555 View Post
    Paul,

    Have you given the though of building or purchasing a server type enclosure? When I was looking into building some sub18's after reading Barry's impressions on his thread I felt I would have to do something about the fan noise of another DCi. A server cabinet design should work given how loud they can get.

    Thanks,
    Scott
    Hi Scott,
    Iíve built a wooden box with baffling but honestly it doesnít work well enough regarding the sound reduction because the fans turn up to the highest level nullifying the box reduction. Iím not that familiar with server enclosures, but Iíd imagine theyíd need ventilation and would be fairly expensive, which leads me to thinking itíd just be cheaper and would really resolve the problem to just go with a quiet BSS product and new amps.

    Do you agree?

    Thanks
    Paul

  4. #1654
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    It does!
    Thanks a lot

    Mine are about ⅛Ē all around give or take a 32nd.
    Paul

  5. #1655
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    You can use any of the London Soundweb units with the original JBL M2 macro exact as Jonas is pointing out above.

    The BLU-160 & BLU-800 series are modular and can accommodate 4 input or output cards with each 4 channels analogue or digital balanced connections. You can also use BLU-100 to BLU-103 that are fixed input & output units with typically 8 analogue in and 8 analogue out.

    BLU50 is a 4 x 4 analogue in/out unit without a fan and smaller footprint.

    All of them have a digital connector called BLU-LINK that can accommodate 128 simultaneous stereo channels @ 48kHz and half that in 96kHz.

    There are modular expansion units like the BLU-120/326 that can accommodate 4 cards each so you can basically create whatever combination you need. Analogue or digital domain.

    There are also fixed I/O units BLU-BOB which offer 8 analogue outputs (or inputs BLU-BIB.

    You can also feed you BSS main unit direct from a computer via a small unit called BLU-USB which is USB in and 8 channel BLU-LINK out.

    I use a BLU-800 (8 digital inputs / 2 cards and 8 analogue outputs / 2 cards) plus a BLU-BOB (additional 8 analogue channels out) for my HT and a BLU-50 (4 analogue in and 4 analogue out) to the M2ís (no sub. The BLU-50 is fed digital from a computer via a BLU-USB. I donít use the analogue inputs on the BLU-50.

    I would get a BLU-10X unit to you M2ís. They are easier to find at got rates and slightly less noisy.

    Or get a BLU50 without the fan and add a BLU-BOB (also no fan) to get you outputs for the subs. BLU-BOB comes in two flavours, half rack (as BLU-50) and full rack width (as the rest).

    In the BLU-160 and BLU-800 there are 4 fans and you really only need the two on the power supply side, the other two can be disconnected. They are rather noisy so by upgrading to Noctua fans they will be virtually silent. There is a separate thread on that here on LHF if you do a search.
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  6. #1656
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebackman View Post
    You can use any of the London Soundweb units with the original JBL M2 macro exact as Jonas is pointing out above.

    The BLU-160 & BLU-800 series are modular and can accommodate 4 input or output cards with each 4 channels analogue or digital balanced connections. You can also use BLU-100 to BLU-103 that are fixed input & output units with typically 8 analogue in and 8 analogue out.

    BLU50 is a 4 x 4 analogue in/out unit without a fan and smaller footprint.

    All of them have a digital connector called BLU-LINK that can accommodate 128 simultaneous stereo channels @ 48kHz and half that in 96kHz.

    There are modular expansion units like the BLU-120/326 that can accommodate 4 cards each so you can basically create whatever combination you need. Analogue or digital domain.

    There are also fixed I/O units BLU-BOB which offer 8 analogue outputs (or inputs BLU-BIB.

    You can also feed you BSS main unit direct from a computer via a small unit called BLU-USB which is USB in and 8 channel BLU-LINK out.

    I use a BLU-800 (8 digital inputs / 2 cards and 8 analogue outputs / 2 cards) plus a BLU-BOB (additional 8 analogue channels out) for my HT and a BLU-50 (4 analogue in and 4 analogue out) to the M2ís (no sub. The BLU-50 is fed digital from a computer via a BLU-USB. I donít use the analogue inputs on the BLU-50.

    I would get a BLU-10X unit to you M2ís. They are easier to find at got rates and slightly less noisy.

    Or get a BLU50 without the fan and add a BLU-BOB (also no fan) to get you outputs for the subs. BLU-BOB comes in two flavours, half rack (as BLU-50) and full rack width (as the rest).

    In the BLU-160 and BLU-800 there are 4 fans and you really only need the two on the power supply side, the other two can be disconnected. They are rather noisy so by upgrading to Noctua fans they will be virtually silent. There is a separate thread on that here on LHF if you do a search.
    Wow thank you for taking the time to spell all that out for me. So if I read this right, your suggestion of the BLU50 & BLU-BOB combo would allow analog input from my DAC and provide 6 analog inputs to the amplifiers for the M2s and the 2xSUB18s. Right? Don pointed out, the only downside to the BLU-50 is the 48k limit. Iím not familiar with what that limit means.

    Thanks
    Paul

  7. #1657
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champster View Post
    Hi Scott,
    Iíve built a wooden box with baffling but honestly it doesnít work well enough regarding the sound reduction because the fans turn up to the highest level nullifying the box reduction. Iím not that familiar with server enclosures, but Iíd imagine theyíd need ventilation and would be fairly expensive, which leads me to thinking itíd just be cheaper and would really resolve the problem to just go with a quiet BSS product and new amps.

    Do you agree?

    Thanks
    Paul
    My thoughts on the enclosure would be similar to what is found below but retrofitted for amps. I would also run a booster fan on the outlet if needed. I think temperature monitoring is a feature on the DCi. I only mention it because you already have and like the amps. The convenience of the DCi is awesome, but if I were starting from scratch I would think about getting the DSP Rob suggests and then a Crown CTS series amp as he also runs.

    Name:  enclosure.PNG
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  8. #1658
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srm51555 View Post
    My thoughts on the enclosure would be similar to what is found below but retrofitted for amps. I would also run a booster fan on the outlet if needed. I think temperature monitoring is a feature on the DCi. I only mention it because you already have and like the amps. The convenience of the DCi is awesome, but if I were starting from scratch I would think about getting the DSP Rob suggests and then a Crown CTS series amp as he also runs.

    Name:  enclosure.PNG
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    Yes I built something similar out of ĺ MDF except that is only has 1 switchback instead of 2 in your picture. I also do not have the fiberglass lining but do have a muffler style baffling system. I did not initially have the fans and that was a mistake. The amps got hot and went into high speed fan mode and made more noise than in low mode outside the box. So then I added 2 low noise 3” fans and it helped, but didn’t cure it entirely. Now maybe my design could use some improvements but as far as a sealed box, it is pretty tight. In my experience, this solution helps, but doesn’t 100% solve the noise issue.

    Paul
    Last edited by Champster; 06-05-2020 at 09:46 AM. Reason: Typo

  9. #1659
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    A few general comments on the picture...
    Quite a bit of airflow is needed. Easily underestimated. A 100w lightbulb in a closed box can start a fire.
    The path needs to be through the device being cooled and assisting the internal fan flow (not limiting or opposing).
    The fewer 180deg turns the better (airflow-wise).
    I'd leave off the bottom layer of insulation at each level (if any is actually needed)... it would get -nasty-

    Paul, have you had time to modify your muffler?

  10. #1660
    Senior Member Champster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    A few general comments on the picture...
    Quite a bit of airflow is needed. Easily underestimated. A 100w lightbulb in a closed box can start a fire.
    The path needs to be through the device being cooled and assisting the internal fan flow (not limiting or opposing).
    The fewer 180deg turns the better (airflow-wise).
    I'd leave off the bottom layer of insulation at each level (if any is actually needed)... it would get -nasty-

    Paul, have you had time to modify your muffler?

    Thank you for the wise words of advice. We certainly are having enough fires lit these day due to the protests and donít need any more....

    As you heard when you were over, the box concept doesnít entirely eliminate the fan noise and thus rather than trying to make a better band aid, Iím going with the BSS option and a consumer amp. And as Jonas said so well, I shouldnít allow anything to detract from the dynamic range offered by these speakers.

    I have instead decided to pursue the path of a BSS unit and consumer amps. I will admit that I am concerned that an amp for example like Nelson Passís, First Watt with a throbbing 25wpc wonít sound as dynamic at an 85-90dB average listening level. Will a 200-300wpc amp have that dynamic punch left in it when being asked to produce power at 85-90dB? Iím not sure. Perhaps you could all weigh in on that issue.

    Thanks
    Paul

  11. #1661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champster View Post
    Thank you Don for the information. What would be the appropriate BLU product for me as I only need a total of 2 channels in and 6 channels out? I have a DAC that feeds 2 channels into the DSP and then a pair of M2s (4 total channels) and a pair of SUB18's (2 total channels).

    Thanks
    Paul
    Sorry, I'm asking this question without doing research and I'm unfamiliar with their implementation, but aren't the processors/amplifiers capable of going in with a digital input (usb, aes, maybe i2s) to avoid an extra a/d conversion? Studios must be using these in the digital domain, no?

  12. #1662
    Senior Member srm51555's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    The fewer 180deg turns the better (airflow-wise).
    Correct, the one I have experience with only has one muffler portion on each side but works extremely well. I should have clarified that when I submitted the picture.

    I don't remember exactly the SPL I took with my phone on the server's fan but it was something like 120dB, but with the door closed you could have a conversation no problem.

  13. #1663
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusty jefferson View Post
    Sorry, I'm asking this question without doing research and I'm unfamiliar with their implementation, but aren't the processors/amplifiers capable of going in with a digital input (usb, aes, maybe i2s) to avoid an extra a/d conversion? Studios must be using these in the digital domain, no?
    I believe it’s 48 or 96kHz, spdif or aes-ebu with the BLU Digital input card. Same out if your amp has a digital in, or BLU-LINK in ... then there’s the avb or dante versions for the BLU-80x series.

    blu-usb? You’ll have to look up or someone else can respond. I think it was covered awhile back.

    (I’ll hazard a guess that the server fan noise mentioned above was a bit below 120dB, but glad the box worked )

  14. #1664
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    Thanks Grumpy, I did start reading about the BLU products today at lunchtime though I'm not 100% sure I understand exactly what it's about.

    I'm not sure why Paul is going into the Crown equipment in analogue, unless there's not a digital input option, but with the BLU piece he could go in with digital and use a digital out card to feed his favored dac for say the horn channels and an analogue card for woofers and sub-woofers?

  15. #1665
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Lots of options, for sure.
    Have to match in/outs with equipment available.
    Working entirely in one manufacturerís ecosystem makes it a bit easier, for sure.

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