Nice!
Which paper is that?
Here is the colored version from the M2 literature.
The one from the AES paper looks more precise indeed.
Nice!
Which paper is that?
Here is the colored version from the M2 literature.
The one from the AES paper looks more precise indeed.
What is the problem with the protection cap?Originally Posted by 4313B
I was planning to do the opposite: discard the lpad (my amp are silent enough and has a low gain) but keep the protection cap.
Another solution would be to put the protection cap in front of the amp (line level) if you can trust it (no fault, no on/off thump, and a low DC offset), but in any case I would never trust the rest of the chain (including myself).
Help us mere mortals (me) understand this kind of graph.Nice!
Which paper is that?
Here is the colored version from the M2 literature.
The one from the AES paper looks more precise indeed.
How does the "optimal" speaker look like in this diagram, all lines flat?
Is it most important that "listening window" is flat?
Directivity index, is that also flat line that is the goal? Does it show how much the sound is spread (or beamed) at certain frequencies?
May I remind of
JEAN HIRAGA'S LE MONSTRE / MONSTER(link)
- There are other low power amps for sure.
__________
Peter
Ideally both cap and l-pad/resistor is unwanted, since none of them do any good and normally will reduce SQ. But of course if one use very high quality Products it's just marginal difference. Low quality cap or resitor can really make the sound worse.
Current I run without both, but have a slight problem With hiss. I have some Mundorf M-Resist Supreme resistors that I've used before, but I imagine it sounds better without
If you want a comprehensive explanation the best thing to do it to buy Floyd Toole's book.
Listening window should be flat (and EQed to be flat) and the on axis curve should be as close as possible to it.
The other two curves should be smooth and follow the typical "house curve" shape.
This is the type of curve you will measure at your listening position with an ungated measurement.
The directivity index curves are just another way of analyzing the first reflexion and power curves, as these are obtained by subtracting these to the listening window curve (which is EQed flat, so these are just "mirrored" versions).
The M2 looks darn close to the optimal.
The only real "defects" you can see in these curves are the differences between the listening window and on axis curves (500Hz-1.5kHz range, 2kHz hole, UHF narrowing), the shallow hole in the 800Hz vicinity in the first reflexion and power curves (inherent to the Linkwitz-Riley crossover target), and possibly the small high Q ripples in the >8kHz range in those two curves (only visible on the curves from the AES paper)...
Adding a super tweeter at around 8kHz could possibly improve this measurement, but you would also get some unavoidable comb filtering at the crossover point.
Probably not worth it...
It is a capacitor...
He's just saying that it isn't necessary in his world. He never uses them. He does use the resistor pad. Is it ok if I post that information? Probably not because as sure as the sky is blue someone will blow something up and point to this thread.
Pro uses the cap, they didn't bother biasing it either. I would absolutely bias it. It isn't even a consideration NOT to bias it. But I understand and empathize with their need to save $10 on a $6k loudspeaker. It's what they do.
Yeah, hiss drives me nuts. If I hear hiss I just get up and walk out. Life's too short for that shit.Ideally both cap and l-pad/resistor is unwanted, since none of them do any good and normally will reduce SQ. But of course if one use very high quality Products it's just marginal difference. Low quality cap or resitor can really make the sound worse.
Current I run without both, but have a slight problem With hiss. I have some Mundorf M-Resist Supreme resistors that I've used before, but I imagine it sounds better without
Thanks.
Will buy the book for sure.
Hi 4313B,It is a capacitor...
He's just saying that it isn't necessary in his world. He never uses them. He does use the resistor pad. Is it ok if I post that information? Probably not because as sure as the sky is blue someone will blow something up and point to this thread.
Pro uses the cap, they didn't bother biasing it either. I would absolutely bias it. It isn't even a consideration NOT to bias it. But I understand and empathize with their need to save $10 on a $6k loudspeaker. It's what they do.
........
Yes, You are right that they want to save as much as possible.
Look the price of JBL original compression driver diaphragm price, reaching 200$, while they cost them , I believe 10 times less.....
Somewhere it has been written that 4-inch Be diaphragm cost them about 100$ while other then Harman produce for them, but later Harman continue the production reaching 'acceptable price', what is now their price for the Be diaphragm for the 476Be driver, I have no idea, may be You know....
Now we can see that D2430K driver with M2 horn wold cost round 700$, and 2216nd would cost round 400$
( as 2265Nd can be get for round 320$)
http://www.parts-express.com/jbl-226...oofer--294-452,
so drivers per box would cost round 1000$, (not to mention that JBL rel cost would be round 50%), so 10$ is 2% of the cost.....
regard
ivica
When are all you guys going to start building yours?
Soon but I have been saying that for months Rob
"I could be arguing in my spare time"
I know what you mean
I'm not sure what my problem is, just not all that fired up to play around with woodworking right now. Maybe next summer.
Building the second cabinet tonight, well the outside at least. I'm also still working on the bracing of the first cabinet. Hope to finish this month
Got to finish the entertainment center mods first to make room for them. Virtually all parts in hand (except woofer mounting hardware) so serious work to begin before Thanksgiving and complete by Christmas/New Years
Amps and crossovers to be dealt with in 2016...current $0 budget plan is miniDSP 2x4 and 2x Crown X1000 to start. Will try hold out for passive XO solution before dropping >$2k (?) for proper amps and DSP crossover.
Many thanks to everyone contributing to the project.
I'm useing 2447BE in Seos 24 horns with my 2216ND in my HT, very satisfied but do consider M2 horns. Have anyone compared Seos horn to M2?? And anyone tried 2447/2451BE with M2 horn?
There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
