Whites are def the way to go.
Ranes may not be the best for sure, but they sure beat the hell out of alot of other brands out there. Once again I used an ME60 for a year and was satisfied till I got the 4400's. I have never used or tried Klark Teknik but they sure are popular with the large touring companies. End of story.
Have a good one.
Yeah, they are industry standard. But I own a pair, and I dont like them. Bought em brand new, too!
You want to know something Ken? The engineer that recommended the K-T to me also said something very similar to what you just said! he told me get rid of your Whites, you didnt say this but its the next thing! I went and bought em, got em back here, made cables, installed them, listened, adjusted, re listened, adjusted more! After 3 days i started to switch back and forth with the White 4200A,s and not only myself, but everyone said it sounded MUCH better with the Whites!
After TWO weeks of futzing around with the K-T,s I called Steve, I told him I didnt like them, the clip light lit way too easily, thin sound, etc, etc. Then I asked him WHERE hes using them that he got em sounding right! he told me "Oh, I never used them, but they are industry standard, and everyone says good things about them "! All the major companies use them! FEH!
They MAY be popular with whoever, but to me, they still dont sound like I like!
Incidentally, one thing to know about K-T if you really want to get them, is the older ones, say a DN-360 stereo cut/boost EQ is quite different from the newer EQ,s they make now! Back then, K-T was also L-C tuned filters, now they use thick film circuitry called " MELT " filters! Completely different sound!
Last edited by scott fitlin; 10-07-2004 at 05:27 PM.
I aplogize if I seemed a bit brash in my last post! But I do take exception to someone recommending a brand or type of component if they havent actually used, heard, or owned it!
This happened to me! I took someones recommendation, and K-T is expensive, only to find out I already had the best!
Imagine how I felt when this engineer told me he hadnt actually ever used K-T, but he recommended it because it was industry standard! Nonetheless, it was still $1400 I had already spent!
I, personally, only recommend things I have actually used, and like, or own!
It happened to me!
i think we all regard those values to be a good thing, and if everyone had actually used and liked equipment they recommended -- this world would be a better place
ScottOriginally posted by scott fitlin
I aplogize if I seemed a bit brash in my last post! But I do take exception to someone recommending a brand or type of component if they havent actually used, heard, or owned it!
This happened to me! I took someones recommendation, and K-T is expensive, only to find out I already had the best!
Imagine how I felt when this engineer told me he hadnt actually ever used K-T, but he recommended it because it was industry standard! Nonetheless, it was still $1400 I had already spent!
I, personally, only recommend things I have actually used, and like, or own!
It happened to me!
No worries, I see your point re the KT's. If I wanted KT's I would have them. I love my 4400's. I was just trying to give the guy some options from good, better, best.
Just goes to show we all have strong opinions at times. You did not offend me, but rather pointed out a truth. If you have not tried it yourself, don't promote it.
Just refinishing my HR-1 cabs. Have my new bases all textured and painted. Will be posting some pics soon. Discovered my Westlakes don't have 2446's but 2441's with aluminum phragms. Was also shocked at how much lighter a 2235H is compared to the old alnico 15's.
Ken
No wonder you like those Westlakes so much. The 2441 on that horn is quite good!Originally posted by Ken Pachkowsky
Discovered my Westlakes don't have 2446's but 2441's with aluminum phragms.
Widget
I second this! 2441 =Originally posted by Mr. Widget
No wonder you like those Westlakes so much. The 2441 on that horn is quite good!
Widget
Hi
This is the EQ ( DN27 ) upon which KT built a good portion of its' reputation. They then built on that sonic reputation with the release of the dual channel DN30/30 and the more refined DN360 . To the best of my recollection "tuned LC circuitry" was retired with the release of the Dual 30 band "30/30" . In fact the passive insides of the DN27 might not have made it into the DN27a model.
Scott, unfortunately for you, you bought KT(s) after they had all the market penetration they wanted ( for pricey EQs ) and were by then looking for ways to broaden their market ( ie. cheapen their product ) .
A Fast Tour:
- Potted Inductors
- Silver-Mica &/or Polystyrene Caps
-"Trimmable" circuit mount pots for each LC leg
- Check Out the size of that output transformer / the smaller MuMetal shielded input transformer is below ( round can ) - by Sowter Transformers .
<> Earl K
Last edited by Earl K; 10-07-2004 at 06:46 PM.
yes im aware of this! In fact the DN-360,s from the 80,s are also Tuned L-C filters!
I bought my mono DN-300,s, which are the same as the 360 but seperate chassis for each channel in `95. By this time the K-T EQ,s were MELT filters using thick film circuitry to emulate the sound of an inductor. I knew pretty much right away I had made a bad buy!
When I speak negatively about K-T Im referring to the units you can get now! I have worked on systems that had K-T with the old style circuitry and they sound good, but I still prefer the White!
This was one of the BIG moments where I learned to use my own ears, and not be bothered with what " industry " considers the standard!
Then I had them up for sale, and i couldnt believe how little people wanted to spend for them! I got many calls, everyone was willing to give me $700.00 for the pair, and they werent even a year old! I wasnt in extreme need, so I said F%*k it, and put em in my storage, and they sit there in the rack collecting dust! One sound contractor really wanted them but was only willing to give me 600 tops for the pair, he used logic like your not using them and you dont like em, so sell em to me! The money didnt matter, so I let them sit.
Earl, fortunately for me, I held on to all my White EQ,s, my favorite pair being the 4200A,s my dad purchased for me in 1983! They sound great, and I mean great, they are built like tanks, and hold up extremely well. I had them serviced last year, and after 20yrs of service, all they found wrong was a leaky capacitor on one of the 400hz filters, and the pots needed cleaning! They arent scratchy either! I still have and use these, and they sing!
I will take your word that your K-T,s sound good, I see alll those inductors on your board! However, without those windings, the K-T,s aint got it!
BTW, just to let you know, I also really like the sound of the old Altec EQ,s! The 9860A,s and the consumer 729A!
Hi
I have an Altec 729a - but I haven't listened to it for about 15 years. I do keep meaning to climb up into the top tier of the RediRack and haul it down for a listen. So, as such, I'm in no postion to recommend it as a buy.BTW, just to let you know, I also really like the sound of the old Altec EQ,s! The 9860A,s and the consumer 729A!
Generally, I follow the advice of Don & Carolyn Davis ( SynAudCom ) and buy a 1/3 octave whose filters "combine". These filter types combine amplitudes as well as their phase slopes in such a way that a tech with a TEF system can actually EQ by only watching the phase response readout.
IME, most peoples firmly held opinions for certain EQ's can be traced back to this type of filter. The Altecs / Whites / KT - the ones I know, are all a combining type filter.
I'm not crazy about the inductors in the lowend, but in the midrange and topend they can't be beat - still; I don't use EQ at home .
<. Earl K
I agree the top end, and mids of the White 4200A,s is great. Especially the top end, so crystal, so sparkly.
But the low end of the 4200A has that organic, earthy tone, and I was always told it was the L-C filters that do this also. BIG sounding, but not synthetic!
I have besides K-T, I have a BSS-966 Opal, and a pair of Rane GE60,s, both are Constant Q filters, and although the BSS is clean, it doesnt compare to the White, especially in the low end!
I know that the White has always held the No.1 spot in my ears as far as EQ is concerned, and that combining filters are part of why they sound the way they do, but if the inductors arent responsible for the low end, why do the Whites make such authentic sounding bass?
K-T. I just was on their website, and their EQ,s now are Proportional Q filters, a variation of Consant Q design I guess!
I got to hear the digital KT,s a while back, pretty extensively too, and I didnt like these at all! very hollow sounding midrange!
The way I see it is, my Whites held up well for 20 years, and even then, service said there good. They will serve me another 20 years, and hold up well! Figure by then at least, maybe they will get the digital stuff the companies are pimping, to work right?
Last edited by scott fitlin; 10-07-2004 at 08:00 PM.
Have you ever played with any of the Manley EQ,s? Like their copies of the Pultecs?
I have heard the Pultec in a studio, and man can they pump out some low end! Gives the kick drum that really muscular punch!
I listened to the Manley, and I dont know, what do you say?
The best sounding midrange from any EQ I have ever heard came out of this big red face EQ, a tube job, a company from Pennsylvania, called D.W.fearn! Not really an EQ I could use in my place, but man the midrange was to die for, Im telling ya!
Last edited by scott fitlin; 10-07-2004 at 08:13 PM.
http://www.dwfearn.com/VT4RGB4-16.JPG
This thing sounds incredible, the mids are the best ive ever heard! So is the price!
Hi Scott
Cute Red thing . How Much ?
I'll have to hook up a DN27 soon, to see what it does on the bottom end.
I now realize my stated impressions of these DN27 go back 26 years. A lot has changed from those days.
Back then my Crown 300s were considered big amps until replaced with Phase Linear 700(s).
Well, I can't create an informed opinion unless I can use the stuff in a controlled environment ( like here at home ). So far that hasn't happened .I listened to the Manley, and I dont know, what do you say?
I'll have to verify the following statement out further - but - I don't think "Constant-Q" filters are of the combining class . Sales literature generaly won't state it , so a person needs to get a hands on and then run tones and pink noise through the EQ - all hooked up to an RTA - to find out what gives.
Re; EQ at home;
I prefer to primarily spend some money on changing/fixing the acoustics of the listening environment. I own a lot of portable 2'x4' foam panels ( glued to GatorBoard ). Not Sonex but Auralex .
<. Earl K
ok i borowed some dod 2x15 at a local musicshop just to see if i really would need a eq. started pinknoise and when i was finished tuning for +/- 1db it looked like this!(see pic). well u could say the room does colour the sound a bit...now it sounds pretty sweet. a presence in the music i never heard before! so i realize i need a good eq. no point in buying some junk. so i´ll find a way to rise the budget!
Last edited by Figge; 10-08-2004 at 08:17 AM.
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