I'm pretty certain 4313B can assure us that no such group exists!Originally Posted by jblnut
Finding more that four people at Northridge who even know what a 250ti is might prove difficult as I understand it.
I'm pretty certain 4313B can assure us that no such group exists!
Finding more that four people at Northridge who even know what a 250ti is might prove difficult as I understand it.
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
I almost forgot the funniest part of the audition...
David was showing me the removable grilles for the bass unit and we both had a chuckle. It seems that your $12k does not buy you anything sensible like magnets to hold it in place. Yes folks, the Array 1400 has those same freaking plastic pins that have plagued JBL for so long.
So funny, and so wrong in a speaker in the price category...
Jblnut
I wonder how the Arrays compare to the S4700s. Are they about the same, or are the S4700s better? I'd say the S4700s are better but not by leaps and bounds. This is my honest opinion. I don't regret buying them, but I expected more...maybe they still need to break in?
S4700 owner.
You'd really have to hear them side by side to make a decision.
I'm not kidding when I suggest to people to buy a pair of SAM1HF's and put them with a decent pair of low frequency transducers of their choice... there is alot to be said for the vertical horn sporting the 3-inch 435 compression driver core with the aluminum diaphragm. But... in reality, it isn't necessarily a slam dunk integrating the SAM1HF with various low frequency transducers, it can take some effort.
The K2-S5800 you wanted, the 1400 Array, the SAM1HF and the 4338 all use the same high frequency and ultra-high frequency compression drivers (some other systems did too, S4800, SK2-1000, etc).
The more expensive S4700 uses the less expensive 1.75-inch aluminum diaphragmed 175Nd-3 which is used in a vast number of JBL systems including the 1000 Array and 4429.
Pure speculation on my part but I suspect the Dealer suggested the S4700 to you based on price. I believe the K2-S5800's you originally wanted were $18K a pair, closer to the $20K price tag of the S4700, while the 1400 Array is "only" $12K a pair.
While the 1400 Array uses "better" compression drivers, the 2216Nd in the S4700 is arguably light years ahead of the LE14H-3, which is closely based on the original LE14A from the sixties - my point being that there isn't a whole lot of modern "goodies" or technology built into an LE14H-3 or LE14H-4. The reason the LE14H-3 and LE14H-4 can still be used in high performance loudspeakers today is because the guy who designed the LE14A back in the sixties hit a game changing home run and it takes a ton of modern technology to outperform it.
There is also the network to consider since that little detail literally makes or breaks a design. For example, although the 4365 uses significantly better transducers compared to the S4700, the S4700 ends up being the more musical of the two systems and that is primarily a network detail. One thing the S4700 makes liberal use of is neodymium and the weight savings is substantial.
This is exactly what I heard David say. I had asked about the 4700 this summer and he said that his Harman rep recommended we try and get the 1400 for a demo instead. The word "better" came up a few times so it must be generally agreed somewhere within Harman that the 1400 punches a little above its weight in the product lineup.
jblnut
Well... if JBL does come through and make the 1501AL-1 and 1501AL-2 available over the counter in the next few months...
Of course that could end up a nightmare for JBL if people are buying 1500 Series drivers and SAM1HF's and then calling them non-stop to ask what to do with them... that gets them right back into the place they didn't want to be anymore in the eighties when they killed off the Loudspeaker Component Series.
I personally view the 1400 Array as one step below the K2-S9800 in terms of quality. Aluminum and titanium diaphragms instead of beryllium in the 435 and 045 cores and the venerable fourteen instead of the significantly higher priced 1500AL. And... I'll bet you can find some people who would prefer the 1400 Array over the K2-S9800.
Ok, thanks for the info! Much appreciated. Well, the dealer offered me the K29900s at $24k too. The deal came directly from JBL. Apparently they wanted to move product as the year came to a close. Anyway, I just couldn't afford the K2s, so I went with the S4700s instead, thinking it's the better speaker than the 1400 Array. I also didn't really take to the 1400 Array because of the assembly required. I'm a klutz, and I probably would break something in the assembly process. The K2-S5800s were available at the Harman store, but they only had 1 left. The price was around $3800 each.
But, overall, I'm ok with the S4700s, but again, I expected more out of them. And again, perhaps they need to be run in some more...
S4700 owner.
Ok, cool, thanks...the 1400 Array is a great speaker, imo.Well... if JBL does come through and make the 1501AL-1 and 1501AL-2 available over the counter in the next few months...
Of course that could end up a nightmare for JBL if people are buying 1500 Series drivers and SAM1HF's and then calling them non-stop to ask what to do with them... that gets them right back into the place they didn't want to be anymore in the eighties when they killed off the Loudspeaker Component Series.
I personally view the 1400 Array as one step below the K2-S9800 in terms of quality. Aluminum and titanium diaphragms instead of beryllium in the 435 and 045 cores and the venerable fourteen instead of the significantly higher priced 1500AL. And... I'll bet you can find some people who would prefer the 1400 Array over the K2-S9800.
S4700 owner.
Well, we are waiting for your home report !!! The S4700 look very nice. The only point for me concerned the horn driver. Anyway, I know the 4428 and 4429, and both sound very good.
Enjoy.
Regards Stephane
Ok man, no problem! Thank you. The horn doesn't sound shouty, as for instance Klipsch speakers. I haven't heard those.
S4700 owner.
I'm intrigued by this. So, hypothetically, if I were to buy two 4.0 cu ft boxes tuned to 28 Hz (because Lord knows I can't build one - my one attempt at woodworking, a bird house of all things, lasted less than one season, and then I felt bad that the birds' house collapsed in upon itself) ripped the LE14H-3s out of my PS1400s and installed them in said hypothetical boxes, and then plopped a hypothetical SAM1HF on top of each one, crossing the assembly passively with the network from a specific, very well known and desirable contemporary JBL speaker model (assuming I could hypothetically get my hands on one, 'cause again, I can't build it) or actively bi-amped the whole setup @ 750 Hz I could hypothetically have something pretty decent? Something that might be a rough approximation of a particular set of $12K speakers?
Hypothetically, of course...............
PT800/PS1400 | ML No 532H | AR Reference 3 | Thorens TD-126, Sumiko FT-3, Talisman S | Musical Surroundings Nova II | NAD M51
Are you sure? Mine do not. The wire grill frame has four ends that slip with considerable friction into rubber wells. Same with the Array 1500 subs.
If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.
If it makes you feel any better, I own my own pair of these mystery $12K wonders and yet I still bought a pair of SAM1HFs and LE14h-3s last summer with the plan of doing just that when my schedule lightens up.
I wouldn't biamp them though as part of the magic is the carefully tuned passive network.
Widget
Same with the 800s. If they were gonna cut corners with plastic pins, surely the BOTL model would be it.
My 1400Arrays use the rubber cups and steel pins and they work better than magnets. The grilles are held on quite securely and the rubber guarantees that there is no audible buzz.
Widget
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote