some TAD help needed if possible.

[frank23]

hi Frank, I'm sure you have your reasons, but have you heard them? Holy crap! If I had the means, they'd be on my short list (ok, my list isn't very short)

jumpers or extra terminals makes sense for the TN-4 question.

I'm sorry I haven't heard them. But I expect them to be terrific in the way that high end can be terrific. I just like large drivers with plenty of air to move. This gives a directness to the sound that I like. And the TADs are more like the B&W range so it seems from the pics, but I'm sure they sound great. So it wasn't meant as critique on the sound, I just think they won't turn out to be classics like some TAD drivers are now.

[grumpy]

I completely understand, no apologies needed
If you -do- get a chance to hear the new models,
I'd highly recommend the experience... Much like
I would like to hear a properly setup pair of older
TAD-based monitors... expecting to be impressed
in a somewhat different way, but impressed
nonetheless.

[bottleneck]

Tad have had a real knack for making beautiful cabinets, truly ''years ahead of their time'' (IMO) - they came out 1980-82.

Check out some of these beauties, which you don't normally see -

[bottleneck]

I dont know why I was so totally against L-pads.. . perhaps more from internet hype than actuality.

All I can say, if you're out there reading this.. and you have TAD TN-4 crossovers . . and only one woofer - you NEED 3db of attenuation on your horn.

Maybe TAD will come back with some clever way of doing this in the crossover, but I actually have BASS now, and I feel like I got X-mas and Birthday altogether for the price of a few resistors and a soldering iron.. .


thank you to everyone that pushed me in this direction, despite resistance

[JBLGUY]

I dont know why I was so totally against L-pads.. . perhaps more from internet hype than actuality.

All I can say, if you're out there reading this.. and you have TAD TN-4 crossovers . . and only one woofer - you NEED 3db of attenuation on your horn.

Maybe TAD will come back with some clever way of doing this in the crossover, but I actually have BASS now, and I feel like I got X-mas and Birthday altogether for the price of a few resistors and a soldering iron.. .


thank you to everyone that pushed me in this direction, despite resistance

It's pretty rare that any Horn/driver combo isn't gonna need some type of attenuation or boosting to match the other parts of the system. So an Lpad is okay.
I am a big believer in going multi amp setups. That way all parts can be adjusted to suit.
I have said before that doing it by ear is a more effective way rather than going by the book. With a little experience it isn't hard to set things where they sound best.
An Lpad is the most basic way of doing it but effective at the same time.
If you own more than one amp think obout bi-amping or more amping and get way better sound. Of course you need an active crossover but they can be had starting at like 80 bucks on ebay and up. 80 is low end but I've had some cheaper active xovers and they weren't too bad. A Rane is a good choice and can be bought used for a pretty good deal. IMO bi-amping with average equipment is better than a passive xover anyday.
Plus the flexibility is much greater on setting levels. Better sound ...less duty for each amp...better control over each driver.
PLUS Then NO Lpads

[jerry_rig]

All I can say, if you're out there reading this.. and you have TAD TN-4 crossovers . . and only one woofer - you NEED 3db of attenuation on your horn.
...
thank you to everyone that pushed me in this direction, despite resistance

And thank you for raising this issue. I just installed -3dB pads on my horns and I am loving the sound. Definitely less "in your face" and more natural. I knew something was off, but couldn't imagine TAD got this wrong. Live and learn...

Best Wishes.

[louped garouv]

those 2301s are really nice looking IMO....

anyone know their scale?

[Odd]

those 2301s are really nice looking IMO....

anyone know their scale?

You can find some info here

[bottleneck]

It's pretty rare that any Horn/driver combo isn't gonna need some type of attenuation or boosting to match the other parts of the system. So an Lpad is okay.
I am a big believer in going multi amp setups. That way all parts can be adjusted to suit.
I have said before that doing it by ear is a more effective way rather than going by the book. With a little experience it isn't hard to set things where they sound best.
An Lpad is the most basic way of doing it but effective at the same time.
If you own more than one amp think obout bi-amping or more amping and get way better sound. Of course you need an active crossover but they can be had starting at like 80 bucks on ebay and up. 80 is low end but I've had some cheaper active xovers and they weren't too bad. A Rane is a good choice and can be bought used for a pretty good deal. IMO bi-amping with average equipment is better than a passive xover anyday.
Plus the flexibility is much greater on setting levels. Better sound ...less duty for each amp...better control over each driver.
PLUS Then NO Lpads

Hi JBL Guy

I actually started 'life' (or my build project) with an Ashly XR2001, and three power amps.

I hope my comments don't upset anyone, but I'd like to say it as I see it.. it's the only way to be.



I enjoyed and appreciated the extra 'punch' in the bass from going active. I would say on balance that it is a very good thing.

The mid-range horn and treble horn however - going active with the Ashly added a layer of I can best describe it as "muddy sound" to these drive units. I definately prefer the presentation of the horns passively, by some margin.

I know this is not always the case. A friend had the Pass Labs crossover, and I would have to say this was essentially 'near invisible' sounding on the horns. This crossover is rare and highly expensive however.



I think a good solution (for me, to my ears) would be going active in the bass and passive in the mid-horn and tweeter (horn).

For the moment I haven't pursued this course because I believe that amplifier quality is an important aspect (being an admitted closet audiophile) - so I would want 2 x very high quality amps, in addition to, for example a Marchand crossover or similar for the bass.

Price wise, one high quality amp, and a passive crossover is very cost-effective.


All the best,
Chris.

[speakerdave]

My experience is that the question can be a little more complicated than that. The need for compensation in the network for non-linearities in the driver response, will have to be met in some way. Very few combinations of drivers do not require this. If you have to provide it with an equalizer stage before the power amp, then you are listening to another layer of electronics besides the active crossover; both are often audible in the treble. I am using a Bryston 10B crossover and the rare and inaudible White 4004 fully passive double tuned LC eq and have found that speaker-level passive high pass with high quality parts (and charge-coupled capacitors) is clearly better. My equipment is not the be all and end all, but I have sincere doubts about inexpensive IC-based electronics added to the signal chain being neutral in a speaker with a revealing treble. Bass quality of electronics can also be an issue, of course, but generally speaking being able to remove speaker-level inductors from the bass signal path and run a woofer direct from the amp is a net plus.

It's pretty rare that any Horn/driver combo isn't gonna need some type of attenuation or boosting to match the other parts of the system. So an Lpad is okay.
I am a big believer in going multi amp setups. That way all parts can be adjusted to suit.
I have said before that doing it by ear is a more effective way rather than going by the book. With a little experience it isn't hard to set things where they sound best.
An Lpad is the most basic way of doing it but effective at the same time.
If you own more than one amp think obout bi-amping or more amping and get way better sound. Of course you need an active crossover but they can be had starting at like 80 bucks on ebay and up. 80 is low end but I've had some cheaper active xovers and they weren't too bad. A Rane is a good choice and can be bought used for a pretty good deal. IMO bi-amping with average equipment is better than a passive xover anyday.
Plus the flexibility is much greater on setting levels. Better sound ...less duty for each amp...better control over each driver.
PLUS Then NO Lpads

[yashka]

Yes, the capacitors are under the board and are sealed in some kind of epoxy. A buddy of mine has "reverse engineered" the entire design by testing the components, so I could theoretically get you the schematic (not promising this). Apparently, TAD uses only one or two capacitor values and combines them in various circuits to get the desired results.

If you are worried about the LF being 3dB too high, you could easily insert an L-Pad.

would you happen to have a schematic for any of the TAD crossovers?

[yashka]

Yes, the capacitors are under the board and are sealed in some kind of epoxy. A buddy of mine has "reverse engineered" the entire design by testing the components, so I could theoretically get you the schematic (not promising this). Apparently, TAD uses only one or two capacitor values and combines them in various circuits to get the desired results.

If you are worried about the LF being 3dB too high, you could easily insert an L-Pad.

would you happen to have a schismatic for any of the TAD crossovers?
thank you

[Ian Mackenzie]

Put an L pad on the horn.

The difference in sensitivity is more like +6db with 2 parrellel woofers into 4 ohms.

There is a guy in CA who regularly sells off NOS Tad gear on EBay so he might know more about it.

I have reveres engineered the network in SoundEasy but sadly the cloning of a Tad horn did not come to pass so I cannot report on any test results.

It's a 6th order brick wall low pass network not unlike an ellipitical filter. The high pass is 12 db with a tank circuit to notch out a bump in the response of the horn.

The L inductors are quite specific values and highly optimised so it's not something that could be assembled with diy parts very easily.

I would not get too hung up on using these networks.

I mean it would be cheaper to buy a crown amp with an in built active filter and sort it out that way.

Just crank down the horn withan L pad.

[Odd]

Some info

[yashka]

Yes, the capacitors are under the board and are sealed in some kind of epoxy. A buddy of mine has "reverse engineered" the entire design by testing the components, so I could theoretically get you the schematic (not promising this). Apparently, TAD uses only one or two capacitor values and combines them in various circuits to get the desired results.

If you are worried about the LF being 3dB too high, you could easily insert an L-Pad.

Do you happen to have a schematics for any of TAD's crossovers?
thank you