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  1. #16
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    Hmm... ST-140 (earlier, MOSFET) and Vandersteen 2s... that takes me back a bit
    IIRC, later Vandersteen 2 models had a number of improvements,
    but the basic recipe and sound remained. Very enjoyable merits,
    usually reasonably priced. Glad to hear you're having fun on your journey
    It's uh... uh... it's down there somewhere, let me take another look...

  2. #17
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Found another pair of walnut Vandersteens locally - this pair are 2Ci again with the Sound Anchor stands ...
    just slightly pricier than the killer deal for the previous pair ...
    so I grabbed them and put them in as side surrounds, and moved the DCM TF600s to the back
    for the occasional rear surround use for the somewhat rare 7.1 sources.

    All I need now is for someone to buy the JBL 4641 sub - it really is overkill in that room ...

    Oh - and and I can sell the Cherry JBL LC2 center now as well -
    I actually got the factory wall mount brackets when I bough it so it can hang it on the wall -
    tho I actually never had clearance under the TV to try that.


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    Oh, that new DVD just released of the 1981 Muddy Waters club date with the Rolling Stones at the Checkerboard club is just EXCELLENT!
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  3. #18
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    moved from my LC2 for sale thread- http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sea...rchid=13210087
    Quote Originally Posted by Audiobeer View Post

    That's a center I have and it's outstanding! How do you like the Vandys?
    Love them to bits so far - I got a pair of 2CEs (4 way floor stander) delivered for a demo and we tried them out with our Carver receiver (125w/ch) - very nice and full sound. Nice presence, great imaging - paid the man his $300 and sent him on his way(!) Later that day I hooked them up with the 40w/ch Jolida tube amp at first and they were good, but not as deep as I hoped. They really do want a bit more power. They're 87dB efficient - not like our L200 based 3ways with the walnut horn.

    I had some time 2 weeks later and hauled them down to the TV room and put them on the Adcom GFA-555, and used the XLO biwire cables they came with. Much fuller and seemed like the sound was more defined - a little crisper or detailed. Position is a little more critical - but its like the sound is just there - not playing in a wooden box.

    A week later I got a B&K ST-202 Plus amp (200w/ch, but I'd heard they are a better pairing than the Adcoms) - I think it does seem a bit warmer with that now. Time to sell the Adcoms I guess.

    Found a pair of slightly older 2CI speakers on the local CL - paid a wee bit more, but I learned from the DCM TimeFrames theater I built that its best if everything is voiced the same - and the 2CIs are really close - basically the same drivers with a slightly older xover design. I set them up as side surrounds, and have a pair of DCM TF-600s as rear surround - they only play with 7.1 sources and there aren't many of them.
    The TF-600 have rear/side facing tweeters so they are more open sounding than you might think, and they do match well with the Vandys

    Found a matched Vandersteen VCC1 center and that turned out to be a great addition - its a better tonal match than the (excellent) LC-2.

    I also made a bid on Audiogon for a Vandy active sub ... basically 3 8 inch woofers in a common box with a compensating network - they claim its the equiv of a 14" cone ... Dunno - but I should have it next week. The subs are a bit rare, so if its not superb I can sell it off easy enough. I'll be about $1400 into this batch of speakers, so far, they sound quite good.

    For a review ... Music is quite nice - I tried all the usual stuff - Steeley Dan, Clapton & Winwood, Knopfler, the Who. CDs and music discs are quite good - SACDs are nice as are mudic videos - played Leonard Cohen's On The Road disc - even his low gravely voice sounds great.

    On Friday I got a Dorian CD of Musorgsky's pictures at an Exhibition on pipe organ ... 2ch stuff - its crazy impressive even without any sub.

    We'd watched the original Die Hard last week (remastered on Bluray) - and it was very cool - plenty of power with all the explosions and pyrotechnics ...
    Last night we watched The Long Riders DVD (1980 western with the Quaid brothers, the Carradine brothers, etc) and got swept up in that.

    Oh, ampwise - the mains are running on the B&K amp I mentioned, the rest is on an Elan Z-660 - its an interesting modular piece with 6 60 watts amp cards - and each pair can be bridged into a 150w amp. So the center is a bridged pair at 150w to keep up with the 200w mains, the sides and rears are on 60 watt channels and seem to do fine. Currently, I've got that old JBL 4641 sub on another Adcom GFA-555 bridged to mono - est 600watts - its set 7dB down in the Integra setup menu.

    But the new sub won't need an amp - maybe its time to sell the Adcoms - or maybe keep one for backup and sell that HK Citation 22 I've had forever.

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    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  4. #19
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Had some listening time fun tonight - pulled out Boz Scaggs Dig and played a few tracks from that -
    basically just the Oppo BDP-93/Integra preamp/B&K ST202 plus amp and the front pair of vandersteen 2CEs - no sub.
    Remarkable how much bass those 2 funky cloth covered stacks put out effortlessly ...
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  5. #20
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    I got a Vandersteen 2W powered sub the other day and have been trying to make friends with it.

    It seems to work ok, but it IS different than other subs -
    basically, you install a high pass filter on the input of the power amp -
    it gets set to match the imput impedance of your power amp and it rolls off the low freq.
    You run a pair of speaker cables to the L & R connectors on the sub- and the sub
    senses the signal off the mains and has compensation for the rolloff.
    Its very music and just brings a bit of the lower octave under the mains.

    I originally had it on the side wall where the 4641 used to live, but yesterday
    I rearranged all the Vandersteens and put the sub module in the front right corner ...
    (instead of on the middle of the side wall next to the 2CI side surround.)

    So - I have 4 nearly matched Vandersteen 2 series pairs in the room
    (2CE fronts, a bit older 2CIs for side surround) a small Vandersteen VCC-1 center, their older 2W sub,
    and those non-Vandy DCM TF-600 transmission line speakers in the rear.
    for the rare occasion when I need 7.10


    The Vandersteen 2W sub is not a big IN YER FACE sub like the 4641 with the 600watt HK Citation 22 amp
    I ran it on - but I always had that dialed down by 10db or so and it was still a PRESENCE.
    Plus, the Vandy sub's not funky-industrial like the 4641, either - the black cloth and wood finish is kind of nice.

    Still got to rip that carpet out, by the roots!~


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    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  6. #21
    Senior Member Krunchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Had some listening time fun tonight - pulled out Boz Scaggs Dig and played a few tracks from that -
    basically just the Oppo BDP-93/Integra preamp/B&K ST202 plus amp and the front pair of vandersteen 2CEs - no sub.
    Remarkable how much bass those 2 funky cloth covered stacks put out effortlessly ...
    I'll take your word for it, I wouldnt think something that shallow would be able to produce good LF, I always think you have to have the depth of a "proper/traditional" enclosure for that.
    Your set up is looking really nice Heather, you must be pretty happy with it, do you find yourself using this room more frequently now, for listening as well as HT?
    I know you got rid of the 4341's & your main 2 channel set up nowadays is the L200's, what do you have left in the JBL family?

    Have fun!
    Just play music!

  7. #22
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krunchy View Post
    I'll take your word for it, I wouldnt think something that shallow would be able to produce good LF, I always think you have to have the depth of a "proper/traditional" enclosure for that.
    Your set up is looking really nice Heather, you must be pretty happy with it, do you find yourself using this room more frequently now, for listening as well as HT?
    I know you got rid of the 4341's & your main 2 channel set up nowadays is the L200's, what do you have left in the JBL family?

    Have fun!
    Still shuffling things in the HT room - but yes, with the vandy mains and the B&K power amp,
    listening to music is a lot nicer in that room that it was before ...
    not to blame the 4341s - it just wasn't the best room for them ...

    I still have the LC2 Center and that 4641 sub to sell, but -
    we have a pair of L19s on my old CR400 (yamaha receiver) in the basement near the treadmill
    The L20Ts that used to be rear surrounds for the movies are now fed by an HK 740 receiver as monitors up in the office.

    And I just might buy a pair of JBL Synthesis 3 subs for the TV room -
    depending on what happens with the vintage vandy Sub I am trying out now ...
    I'm just not pleased with it.

    I like your Avatar - its a bit pricey but I have the 2 Cd version preordered -
    heard the 2 teaser tracks but I can't wait to hear more!
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  8. #23
    Senior Member Krunchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Still shuffling things in the HT room - but yes, with the vandy mains and the B&K power amp,
    listening to music is a lot nicer in that room that it was before ...
    not to blame the 4341s - it just wasn't the best room for them ...

    I like your Avatar - its a bit pricey but I have the 2 Cd version preordered -
    heard the 2 teaser tracks but I can't wait to hear more!
    Yes yes my fellow MK junkie, his stuff is always worth the price of admission, thank goodness the guy is so prolific, I dont get out to see a lot of concerts these days but I would like to see him live one day.

    As to the former in bold, I had a feeling the 4341 replacement/shufle had something to do with space related issue (I was a little confused at first as to why you'd gotter rid of them) and that can often be at a premium these days.
    I'm kind of hesitant to set up a really well thought out HT room for fear I may not be able to tear myself away from the tv
    There's no place like home, theres no place like home
    Just play music!

  9. #24
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krunchy View Post
    Yes yes my fellow MK junkie, his stuff is always worth the price of admission, thank goodness the guy is so prolific, I dont get out to see a lot of concerts these days but I would like to see him live one day.

    As to the former in bold, I had a feeling the 4341 replacement/shufle had something to do with space related issue
    (I was a little confused at first as to why you'd gotten rid of them) and that can often be at a premium these days.
    I'm kind of hesitant to set up a really well thought out HT room for fear I may not be able to tear myself away from the tv
    There's no place like home, theres no place like home
    It seemed like a good time to sell off some of the JBL stuff -
    I got my money's worth out of the 4341s plus a bit more and we had
    enjoyed them for 5 years (!)
    They'd probably have been better in the upstairs with the high ceilings ...
    but stylistically - no - and since Emma likes the L200 plus system ...
    especially with tubes, we're keeping that system.
    Plus I sold off the L100Ts for a bit over 5 bills ...
    it was nice to reclaim the cash from both pairs of JBL!

    They held their value better than the stock market -
    (well, except that I'm invested in APPL lately and its a been great year for them!)


    Someone off the local CL came by and brought that first pair of Vandersteens for a demo -
    a couple hundred dollars below market value plus with stands and fancy biwire cables -
    and when it sounded good upstairs, and when we moved them into the TV room,
    they really suited the space.

    And yes, we REALLY like MK - but even that is not enough to suffer through Bob Dylan in 2012!
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  10. #25
    Senior Member Krunchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    They held their value better than the stock market -
    (well, except that I'm invested in APPL lately and its a been great year for them!)

    Someone off the local CL came by and brought that first pair of Vandersteens for a demo -
    a couple hundred dollars below market value plus with stands and fancy biwire cables -
    and when it sounded good upstairs, and when we moved them into the TV room,
    they really suited the space.
    & vice versa, Thats always an important part of the equation I believe.

    And yes, we REALLY like MK - but even that is not enough to suffer through Bob Dylan in 2012!
    What do you mean , I havent been up on bob lately.
    Just play music!

  11. #26
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krunchy View Post
    What do you mean , I havent been up on bob lately.
    Oh - for the current MK tour he is teamed up with Bob Dylan ... I'd rather hear Bob on an album
    (Desire, Rolling Thunder revue, Planet Waves) than in person where he may be .. shall we say - less than on point.
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  12. #27
    Senior Member Krunchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Oh - for the current MK tour he is teamed up with Bob Dylan ... I'd rather hear Bob on an album
    (Desire, Rolling Thunder revue, Planet Waves) than in person where he may be .. shall we say - less than on point.

    Ahhh! I get it, yes, I know exactly what you mean, and I love bob but I'm with you on this one as well.
    Just play music!

  13. #28
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Cleaned up the Home Theater room. I shipped the Vandy sub back -
    it just doesn't produce bass like a 4641 on full tear with HK Citation 22 in Bridged mono mode off the LFE channel.
    But the 4641 is a bit ... shall we say ... industrial looking?
    Emma like the wood cap and cloth wrap look of the vandys - so on a hunch I put the 4641 on its side,
    did a temporary wrap as a trial, and popped a spare IKEA shelf on top ... just to check out the look.

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    But I have a pair of the Synthesis 3 NS3SL & NS3SR 12 inch passive corner subs on the way ...
    so instead of the fugly 4641, I'll toss them in the front corners, pop the Citation into stereo mode,
    use a Y to feed LFE to the two of them, and try this distributed bass thing.

    I will admit last night we demoed the last couple scenes of the Star Trek reboot film in bluray on the sideways 4641 -
    the scene with Syler-Spock flying old Spock's ship and kicking it into warp speed - what a nice punch that was!
    And when he flew it into the Romulan cruiser - and the sound of the Enterprise firing phasers - and the Romulan ship's final implosion ...
    I dunno what a pair of 12inch subs will do with that by comparison ...

    May the better sub win!
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  14. #29
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    We actually like what that sideways sub is doing in the room - but the look is civilized compared to the black industrial look of the stock cabinet.
    I actually cancelled the HK corner subs just before Labor Day weekend, and managed to sell the pair of Adcom GFA-555s last weekend ...
    which kind of recharged the audio fund. It'd be nice to enlarge the TV screen, currently at 47inch, but we can wait for a good sale for that!

    Enjoying what we have, for now.
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  15. #30
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    So . . . what kind of Pepperidge Farm cookies are those?
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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