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Thread: Why do some people like low powered tube amps???

  1. #16
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Buts that's just my old ears with a "cheap" Jolida amps (40w/ch) ...
    I'm sure with a Manley amp or more high end gear, its even more subtle.
    Your JoLida almost certainly sounds better than the Manley gear, in my experience. This is a pretty common example of price being a poor indicator of good sound. Some gear just costs a lot. Sometimes high end equals hind end.

    Clark
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom

  2. #17
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    Then my Dynacos must be SOTA.


    And while they don't sound as good as what I had, I find the transients and attack like rimshots and drums to be surprisingly good. Last night I was listening to some Gil Evans and was actually startled by the pop of a drum after a quiet passage. Now if I could just get the reliabilty down, I'd be a lot happier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    plse clue us in to "the many" well over 500 watts
    I shouldn't have to tell but as an example, a quartet of 845's will run around 1000 watts without to much bother. There are fare more powerful tubes out there.

    Allan.

  4. #19
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffW View Post
    Then my Dynacos must be SOTA.


    And while they don't sound as good as what I had, I find the transients and attack like rimshots and drums to be surprisingly good. Last night I was listening to some Gil Evans and was actually startled by the pop of a drum after a quiet passage. Now if I could just get the reliabilty down, I'd be a lot happier.
    Oh, Real drums are great - but - I was listening to The Blue Nile and Deacon Blue's Raintown CDs over the weekend
    and they use some drum machines (Linn maybe) with really crisp attacks - 80s kinda stuff ... darn Glaswegians (grin)!

    Then again,"Shhh Peaceful" from the extended In a Silent Way sessions is just lush and fabulous ... more than I imagined.

    So its not that I'm complaining ... its just a comment.

    And yeah, I still have a most of 2 year warranty on that Jolida.
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  5. #20
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffW View Post
    I packed up all my SS amps because the consensus was that they sucked. So i bought some tube amps, and now they suck. Looks like I'm stuck with whistling to myself.
    I grew up with tubes. My first mono system was a Pilot with one JBL 030. Then I went to a Mac C20 and Fisher SA1000 with two 030s. Both tube components needed constant attention with the Mac Clinics eventually replacing everything in the C20 . . . for free . . . just to keep it within specs. I got so tired of replacing teh unique RCA tubes on the Fisher that I traded it on a Crown D150—which is still working fine and sounding great now some forty-years later, and so are the 030s.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  6. #21
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allanvh5150 View Post
    I shouldn't have to tell but as an example, a quartet of 845's will run around 1000 watts without to much bother. There are fare more powerful tubes out there.

    Allan.
    not that I don't believe an expert like you, but I did a little online checking abt the 845 ...

    over and over I find the specs saying "22-28" watts for an 845


    Every 845 or 211 vacuum tube amplifier has power, so what makes this 845 amplifier design stand out? It is the sonic beauty. This Sophia Electric™ 845 amp can match a 845 tube amp for purity and musicality, while putting out 22-25 watts of glorious single ended tube amplifier power.

    Specifications:
    Power: 25 Watts RMS into 8 Ohms
    MFR: 20 Hz - 35 kHz � 3 dB
    Tube Complement: 6SN7 Input, 6AV5 Driver, 845 Output (One Each)
    Size: 10" H x 12" W x 18" D
    Weight: 60 Pounds Each
    MSRP: $4,995/Pair USA


    845 Class A1 power amplifier
    ----------------------------------------------
    DC plate voltage(V) 750 1000 1250
    DC Grid voltage(V) -98 -155 -209
    DC Plate current(mA) 95 65 52
    Load resistance(K ohm) 3.4 9.0 16
    Power output(W) 15 21 24

    New Audio Frontiers 845 SE Special Edition Integrated Tube Amplifier 25+25 Glorious Watts RMS

    845 is a pure class A with tube regulated power supply tube amplifier, which produces 25 watt output continuous into 16/8/4 Ohms.

    regarded directly-heated 845 power triode for an output of up to 25 watts It uses a single 845 triode tube per channel and the power output is 24 watts.



    Nobody
    claims "a quartet of 845's will run around 1000 watts without to much bother" , except you.

    so that's 1 bad example, can you give us some more of the " many to be had at well over 500 watts"
    units ?

    (mebbe you fat fingered an extra zero ? 100 watts for 4 seems do-able)


    Quote Originally Posted by Allanvh5150 View Post
    I shouldn't have to tell
    Allan.
    yeah, just make bogus statements and then don't back them up..you shouldn't have to ...
    Bother me tomorrow, today I'll buy no sorrows.
    Doo, doo, doo, lookin' out my back door

  7. #22
    Senior Member jerry_rig's Avatar
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    500 Watts

    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    plse clue us in to "the many" well over 500 watts
    OK, I'll take the bait... The Atma-Sphere MA-3 Mk.III.1 is an output transformer less (OTL) tube amp rated at 500 watts per channel. Obviously, it is a monster and not your typical tube power amp.

    Generally speaking, traditional push-pull tube amps with transformers are limited to 100 watts per channel or lower. The single-ended triodes often run as little as 3 watts per channel. However, if you can afford it, WAVAC makes a number of 150 watt per channel single-ended designs.

    In my experience, high efficiency horn-based speakers can sound their best with properly matched tube power amps. Massive solid state amps are great for bass and for low-efficiency speakers. I, personally mix the two (tubes for highs and SS for the lows). That's having your cake and eating it!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    I grew up with tubes. My first mono system was a Pilot with one JBL 030. Then I went to a Mac C20 and Fisher SA1000 with two 030s. Both tube components needed constant attention with the Mac Clinics eventually replacing everything in the C20 . . . for free . . . just to keep it within specs. I got so tired of replacing teh unique RCA tubes on the Fisher that I traded it on a Crown D150—which is still working fine and sounding great now some forty-years later, and so are the 030s.
    My tube amps run common tubes, and my SS amps weren't in the same league as the Crown. If I decide to get back into SS, I'll keep an eye out for some Crown gear.

  9. #24
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    I grew up with tubes. My first mono system was a Pilot with one JBL 030. Then I went to a Mac C20 and Fisher SA1000 with two 030s. Both tube components needed constant attention with the Mac Clinics eventually replacing everything in the C20 . . . for free . . . just to keep it within specs. I got so tired of replacing teh unique RCA tubes on the Fisher that I traded it on a Crown D150—which is still working fine and sounding great now some forty-years later, and so are the 030s.
    Yep - the Chinese built Jolida amp I have doesn't have the issues of many tired older tube amps with aging cap and such -
    its nicely made, has a clean 40 watts and a decent warranty, and tubes are pretty cheap and plentiful. Not that I've needed any yet.
    Plus I still have plenty of Adcom amps laying around if I need that bracing SS woofer power.
    That's kind of the best strategy - have plenty of spares for whatever mood strikes you - flexibility.
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Yep - the Chinese built Jolida amp I have doesn't have the issues of many tired older tube amps with aging cap and such -
    its nicely made, has a clean 40 watts and a decent warranty, and tubes are pretty cheap and plentiful. Not that I've needed any yet.
    Plus I still have plenty of Adcom amps laying around if I need that bracing SS woofer power.
    That's kind of the best strategy - have plenty of spares for whatever mood strikes you - flexibility.
    My tired old tube amps all have brand new caps from some pretty high end cap manufacturers, modernized power supplies, and upgraded, modern input driver boards.

    The only trouble I've had was with cheap Chinese tubes.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    not that I don't believe an expert like you, but I did a little online checking abt the 845 ...

    over and over I find the specs saying "22-28" watts for an 845


    Every 845 or 211 vacuum tube amplifier has power, so what makes this 845 amplifier design stand out? It is the sonic beauty. This Sophia Electric™ 845 amp can match a 845 tube amp for purity and musicality, while putting out 22-25 watts of glorious single ended tube amplifier power.

    Specifications:
    Power: 25 Watts RMS into 8 Ohms
    MFR: 20 Hz - 35 kHz � 3 dB
    Tube Complement: 6SN7 Input, 6AV5 Driver, 845 Output (One Each)
    Size: 10" H x 12" W x 18" D
    Weight: 60 Pounds Each
    MSRP: $4,995/Pair USA


    845 Class A1 power amplifier
    ----------------------------------------------
    DC plate voltage(V) 750 1000 1250
    DC Grid voltage(V) -98 -155 -209
    DC Plate current(mA) 95 65 52
    Load resistance(K ohm) 3.4 9.0 16
    Power output(W) 15 21 24

    New Audio Frontiers 845 SE Special Edition Integrated Tube Amplifier 25+25 Glorious Watts RMS

    845 is a pure class A with tube regulated power supply tube amplifier, which produces 25 watt output continuous into 16/8/4 Ohms.

    regarded directly-heated 845 power triode for an output of up to 25 watts It uses a single 845 triode tube per channel and the power output is 24 watts.



    Nobody
    claims "a quartet of 845's will run around 1000 watts without to much bother" , except you.

    so that's 1 bad example, can you give us some more of the " many to be had at well over 500 watts"
    units ?

    (mebbe you fat fingered an extra zero ? 100 watts for 4 seems do-able)




    yeah, just make bogus statements and then don't back them up..you shouldn't have to ...
    Geez dont get of your bike, I'll pick up your pump!

    I meant to say 813 and I was not talking about class A.

    But to continue:

    The humble EL34 will happily run 100 watts per pair

    A pair of 813's will run 500 watts without issues.

    A pair of 5CX1500's can doddle along at 3000W

    A pair of 5CX3000's will go past 10,000w

    The humble 4CX1000 will quite happily tootle along at 3000w +

    A pair of 4CX300Y's will be good for a smaller amp at around 900 watts

    For some serious power, grab a pair of 4CM500s. Good for 550Kw!

    And if you cant be bothered with puny 500Kw circuits get yourself a couple of 8974's: 2,000,000 watts +

    Although tube data books were fine as a guide 40 years ago, tube have changed a lot over the years and their ratings far exceed those stated in the RCA tube manual and others.

    All bogus to you I guess, I think not.

    Allan.

    P.S. Would you want to build any of these?

  12. #27
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    "In my experience, although the most powerful amplifiers are also usually the most expensive, they only rarely offer the best sound. Clearly the single-ended triode valve amplifier doesn't figure on JBL's radar, but i spent many delightful hours enjoying the Everests with a pair of three watt rated PX-4-based monoblocks, via a passive Music first pre-amplifier. Simplicity has its advantages."

  13. #28
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffW View Post
    My tired old tube amps all have brand new caps from some pretty high end cap manufacturers, modernized power supplies, and upgraded, modern input driver boards.

    The only trouble I've had was with cheap Chinese tubes.
    No Chinese tubes in mine either - it came with Russian tubes (Electroharmonix)
    - tho I swapped in some NOS just for grins. I stayed away from the bottom of the pile Chinese amp makers.

    When I first learned electronics in high school, we did work on a lot of tube gear -
    and although I haven't used that info for many years and have forgotten most of it, I did grow up with that stuff.

    For my "first" tube amp I considered an overbuilt & restored Dynaco - there are a lot of them around,
    and lots of folks do go that route. They are kind of pricey tho, for used gear.
    But a very valued friend had one, and said every couple of years his need some kind of expensive repair,
    and after a couple of those expenses, he bit the bullet and sold it off, and he recommended against that route.

    He loaned me his older Jolida for a demo around Christmas, we tried that for a couple months,
    Emma and I both liked the sound but decided we wanted a bit more power, so I wound up buying a more powerful Jolida amp
    new with part of my tax refund this year. Plus, if I have any problems, the Jolida US distributor is about an hour away in Md.

    To get back to the original topic - "Emma and I both liked the sound" - THAT's why we got a tube amp this year!
    2ch - Oppo981, JoLida502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
    HT7- XDA-2, BDP93, 4b NRB, B&K 5ch amp, Vandy 3A, 2Ce, VCC1, TF600 & JBL 4641

  14. #29
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    Just to put some actual (measured) data on all this, my 95 db spl rig produces 90 db output at 1 watt. So, as Giskard's post indicates, you can listen to normal music at normal levels easily with 10 watts. You just have to expect that the peaks are gonna go "off scale" and create distortion. But, that's up to the user, depends on what kind of "music" you listen to. See Nelson Pass DIY web site - a lot of useful engineering articles on why and how, tubes/SS, class A vs AB, etc. There is no "magic bullet."

  15. #30
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    I love the sound of tubes and Pass Class A on horns . I have owned both ,but now with Pass and very happy . Vocals and more delicate details sparkle with both types of amp . I would not rule out using tubes again should the right thing come along . If I wanted uber power, then I'd bi-amp with SS on the LF just because of the work load ,not because they would sound better .

    Rich

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