A crossover point doesn't mean that below this point there's no output, it's a roll-off, depending on the slope you could have still very noticeable output below the crossover point.
a 6db/oct slope at 10kHz Xover point means that at 5kHz you still have 25% of the power output.
My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
1x 2202H on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.
I would hope you would realize I am well aware of that!
In this case we were using a third order 10KHz crossover (18 dB/octave -3dB point at ~10KHz) so it was much sharper than your first order example, but sure, there is certainly some contribution and some effect on the sound even at 5KHz, but the point is that even in a case where one's hearing is fairly impaired while listening to music the addition of higher frequencies was more perceivable than one would have imagined.
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As to what a younger person hears, when I was in high school I started building speakers and I remember hearing sine waves at just above 19KHz but I didn't quite hear 20KHz (though it is possible that my speakers at the time were more deficient than my hearing)... today the best I do is about 15KHz... not bad when you consider all of those youthful indiscretions with big JBLs blasting out rock and roll!
As to the 045Ti, I do think if I had my younger hearing I would insist on the Be version, but as it stands I am actually pretty satisfied with them.
Widget
My inconclusive and raw hypothesis is it all depends on the efficiency of the speaker as a whole. I've listened to a pair of Meyer Audio X10 and wow talk about dynamics but this speaker doesn't go past 20k and sounded better to me than a B&W Diamond 800 that goes past 20k. My theory is if a speaker has high effieincy and dynamics a UHF tweeter isn't needed
I have heard the Tannoy super tweeters in a couple of applications... they are good. That paragraph however is marketing dept. BS. It may be rooted in facts, but it is still BS.
Two decades prior to the amazing advent of SACD and DVDA we had glorious analog with mics, preamps, amps, and and analog tape all quite capable of 30KHz or higher... most high quality vinyl playback systems will reproduce these frequencies and back then there were many loudspeaker systems that would and could reproduce these frequencies... limited bandwidth is a rather recent phenomenon created by the limitations of the 44.1KHz sampling rate of red book CD.
Widget
That is an entirely different topic... not a worthless topic, but a separate subject entirely.
I agree that dynamics are very important to a sense of musicality or "realness" but it appears that different listeners have differing requirements or perhaps more or less willingness to tolerate systems with lower dynamics. The Revel Ultima Salon2 is a superior speaker in many ways than the Meyer X-10 or the JBL Everest, yet it can not compete with either of these in terms of dynamics. Apparently for you, and definitely for me, the more dynamic speaker is the more enjoyable one.
Widget
That may be true. I did not write that. Plus, I suspect that most if not all companies marketing departments produce BS-including JBL. My point was to simply provide an experience that I had with speakers that do not have a UHF tweeter and the difference it made to MY ears. After occuring a sudden reduction in hearing in my left ear about 5 years ago, I bought the Tannoys. I am simply stating I could hear a difference-not that it magically corrected my hearing, but it did help with the HF(and LF).
Careful man, there's a beverage here!
I May be the oldest member on this forum,,,The mid driver (TAD) is good to about 18k,,,But when I add a super tweeter above that,,,i can hear an improvement ,,useing an electronic xover 2 way or 3 way,,,,,,,I dont know why but it sounds better,,,And i know my hearing is not good for my age,,,,
I agree with this statement-almost. I had a grand time with the higher sensitvity S/2600 horn speakers w/Tannoy ST50 driven by a lightly taxed McIntosh MC402 amp-dynamics that seem 'missing' with the Arrays. I could push the S/2600's to pretty high SPL with, according to me and others, great satisfaction. However, as far as I am concerned, the Arrays sound, to me, more like a 'regular' speaker than a horn loaded one-which to my ears, is outstanding. To push the Arrays too hard may cause harm to them, I believe.
I think the term dynamic may mean different things to different people.
Careful man, there's a beverage here!
To be honest I saw this thread in diagonal and didn't remember really who posted, yes I'm sure you're aware of that
18dB/octave is pretty steep, but I wonder how much is still there at 8 or 9k...
I'm sure that case difference could be heard, I'm just not sure it was because of the extended response.
My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
1x 2202H on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.
Lots of interesting comments. If one was to add a supertweeter at like 18k, would that be a good place to start a crossover point?
Seriously?
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