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Thread: Is Mark Levinson Using JBL Drivers?

  1. #61
    Senior Member tomt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundown View Post

    don't see anything that warrants that cost to have high overhead.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    The justification is in the fact that people are willing to pay what he is asking. It's really that simple. If he charged less, people would very probably lose all interest. I know, it sounds really effed up, but that's how these people think.
    looks like you (both) might be missing something.

    so here it is from someone else -



    People often forget that the designers, themselves, have to make something, and the person who sells it, let's say, retail, has to make something, and then there are the company costs like the manufacturing building, storage, etc., telephone, building alarm service, electricity, etc. etc. This drives the cost of a lot of audio components up, and/or profits down.
    This is where 'promotion' even selling a story, much like Mark Levenson often does, helps to get the extra sales that can make a company a success.

    I KNOW that just making the best product I can make and trying to sell it at a reasonable price does not 'cut it' and that is why I never returned to manufacturing products after I closed down Vendetta Research.

    I KNOW that making a world class audio component can become outrageously expensive, just because we want it to be as 'perfect' as possible, both sonically and visually. We fight it every project.
    Now many of you might think that all you need to do is a circuit sim to design it, and a little time to build a prototype, well that will get you a 'hoopty' but NOT a race car. '-)

    http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/loung...ml#post3021255

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomt View Post
    looks like you (both) might be missing something.
    Not hardly... I've worked for fortune fifty corporations for years and know full well what it takes to support the salary of a CEO.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Not hardly... I've worked for fortune fifty corporations for years and know full well what it takes to support the salary of a CEO.
    Hahaha

  4. #64
    Senior Member Steve Schell's Avatar
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    This thread made me reach waaay back in the memory bank. I met Mark Levinson once, probably fifteen years ago. I was in Las Vegas for CES. Red Rose Audio had a large demo room, can't remember whether it was the CES venue or the competing T.H.E. Show location next door. They had made a major impression a year or two before with a small two way system with a ribbon tweeter, but were now introducing a large system. I entered the room, the system was silent and Levinson was talking to two or three people over on the side of the room. I walked up to the speakers, looked them over, then began my exit. Levinson excused himself from the conversation and came over to greet me before I left the room. He asked me what sort of sound I liked, and I told him that I had been experimenting with field coil drivers and had taken a liking to woofers with about 18 kilogauss in the gap. We chatted for a moment then I left, impressed that he had made a point of being cordial to me. Now if he has explored high efficiency speakers in recent years it makes me think that perhaps I planted a seed!

  5. #65
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomt View Post
    looks like you (both) might be missing something.

    so here it is from someone else -
    Coming from one who has actually been there, I'd listen to John Curl... he has vast experience in the industry.

    We can whine about the value of this or that CEO, and their relative brilliance or stupidity, and even their motivations, but when it comes down to it, anyone with a table saw can go into the speaker business... many have, but few of those actually have advanced the bar.


    Widget

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Coming from one who has actually been there, I'd listen to John Curl... he has vast experience in the industry.

    We can whine about the value of this or that CEO, and their relative brilliance or stupidity, and even their motivations, but when it comes down to it, anyone with a table saw can go into the speaker business... many have, but few of those actually have advanced the bar.


    Widget
    I didn't understand your post at all until I took the time to go read the link to which you are referring.

    I read that one post, I refuse to waste my time reading that whole thread.

  7. #67
    Senior Member jblsound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Coming from one who has actually been there, I'd listen to John Curl... he has vast experience in the industry.

    We can whine about the value of this or that CEO, and their relative brilliance or stupidity, and even their motivations, but when it comes down to it, anyone with a table saw can go into the speaker business... many have, but few of those actually have advanced the bar.


    Widget
    I would certainly say a John Curl/Parasound amp is well worth the money. And although a Parasound amp will cost more than an ID amp, they are much less than a ML amp and probably just as good. If I ever bought a pair of Salon2, I would most certainly drive them with a pair of Parasound JC1 monos.
    But I doubt I would ever plop down $100K for a set of speakers, even if I could afford it.
    Living in the Land of the Sun

  8. #68
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblsound View Post
    I would certainly say a John Curl/Parasound amp is well worth the money. And although a Parasound amp will cost more than an ID amp, they are much less than a ML amp and probably just as good. If I ever bought a pair of Salon2, I would most certainly drive them with a pair of Parasound JC1 monos.
    But I doubt I would ever plop down $100K for a set of speakers, even if I could afford it.


    Its all relative IMHO ... If you have spent 100 k on speakers ,chances are , you have spent another 100k on the rest of the system .
    In my experience, the technology in this speaker will filter down raising the bar of his entire brand . Besides, TAD sell about 30 REF 1 pairs a year , the Everest not too many more than that. I really don't see what the issue is . He's not holding a gun to my head to buy a pair. At this level ,its as much art ,as it is science and anyone that can sell an idea that brings joy gets my respect .

    Rich

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    Quote Originally Posted by richluvsound View Post
    Its all relative IMHO ... If you have spent 100 k on speakers ,chances are , you have spent another 100k on the rest of the system .
    In my experience, the technology in this speaker will filter down raising the bar of his entire brand . Besides, TAD sell about 30 REF 1 pairs a year , the Everest not too many more than that. I really don't see what the issue is . He's not holding a gun to my head to buy a pair. At this level ,its as much art ,as it is science and anyone that can sell an idea that brings joy gets my respect .

    Rich
    Rich, I know I get a few barbs thrown my way due to my utilitarian approach to amps and other equipment, but I do think you're right on the money here (so to speak). If there's anything in my kit that I want to look like art, it's the speakers.

    There's no question that I get a ton of joy just looking at the K2 S9900 pair in my living room, and I like the big fat cables attached to them. I also like the looks of the S/2600 pair in the bedroom. I still like the looks of the 250 cabs I have in a couple of places. They're all works of art IMO and as much joy to look at as to listen to. The rest are lesser lookers, and in the Two Jims Theatre, I don't want to look at them at all. They should disappear. But if something is dominating a room, it needs to look statement worthy.

    "Art" is what brought me to JBL in the first place. I was smitten the first time I saw L100 Century speakers with Quadrex grilles. "Modern art" was my first thought.

    When I first saw the K2 S9900 in the flesh, I didn't feel like there was a gun to my head. I felt like there was a needle in my vein.
    In.

  10. #70
    Senior Member jblsound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richluvsound View Post
    Its all relative IMHO ... If you have spent 100 k on speakers ,chances are , you have spent another 100k on the rest of the system .
    In my experience, the technology in this speaker will filter down raising the bar of his entire brand . Besides, TAD sell about 30 REF 1 pairs a year , the Everest not too many more than that. I really don't see what the issue is . He's not holding a gun to my head to buy a pair. At this level ,its as much art ,as it is science and anyone that can sell an idea that brings joy gets my respect .

    Rich
    If I bought a pair of Salon2 @ full retail, that would be $22,0000. A pair of JC1 mono blocks would be $9000. If I decided on a JC2 pre-amp that is only $4000 more. So the Revels would still be almost twice the price of the 3 amps. I don't think one needs to spend the same amount on amps as the cost of the speakers; 2:1 is about right.
    Living in the Land of the Sun

  11. #71
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblsound View Post
    If I bought a pair of Salon2 @ full retail, that would be $22,0000. A pair of JC1 mono blocks would be $9000. If I decided on a JC2 pre-amp that is only $4000 more. So the Revels would still be almost twice the price of the 3 amps. I don't think one needs to spend the same amount on amps as the cost of the speakers; 2:1 is about right.
    I think you are spot on in that pairing. I think the JC-1s and Salon2s are really great together. I have never heard the JC-2 preamp. I assume it is good and perhaps great, but I would certainly audition it in the given system before I committed to it.

    The Salon2s and the JC-1s are not only particularly well suited to each other, they are both extreme values in their respective markets. Sure a pair of speakers costing over 20K isn't chump change, but these speakers are as good as any speaker produced... obviously how you listen, what your taste in music and sound as well as your aesthetic preferences are all factors in determining if these speakers are for you, but those factors aside, they are absolutely top drawer. The JC-1s are pretty much the same in an amp. They are very refined yet they are brutes... while they are nice looking, you are not spending gobs on the housing or uber high end niche marketing.

    All that said, I do not think you can use any formula for the cost of a speaker vs. a cable, an amp, or the whole system... each system should be considered independently... factoring the listener and the room as well as the audio components.

    Back on topic, I don't know anything about this new Mark Levinson venture... but I bet it is good. It may not be value oriented, or they may be outrageously good, I have no idea, but I don't think Mr. Levinson has ever associated his name with anything that was bad. Extreme, yes... outrageously priced... yes, but bad... not yet.


    Widget

  12. #72
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblsound View Post
    If I bought a pair of Salon2 @ full retail, that would be $22,0000. A pair of JC1 mono blocks would be $9000. If I decided on a JC2 pre-amp that is only $4000 more. So the Revels would still be almost twice the price of the 3 amps. I don't think one needs to spend the same amount on amps as the cost of the speakers; 2:1 is about right.

    Thats not what I wrote the 100k on the rest of the system ... its a toy ! 2 or 3 different types of amplifier ,TT's , Digital sources . I'd want to play with it as well as listen to music . There are many fine amps out there . They all sound slightly different and with a pair of speakers that can illuminate the differences in kit why not ?

  13. #73
    Senior Member Rudy Kleimann's Avatar
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    Post Harman, not Levinson...

    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    I like what he's positing. I don't even fault him for selling his name to Lexus for their crap systems.
    Actually, Mark Levinson the person has nothing to do with it. Harman Intl. owns the Mark Levinson brand name and is selling/promoting their sound systems in the Lexus et.al. high-end cars.

  14. #74
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudy Kleimann View Post
    Actually, Mark Levinson the person has nothing to do with it. Harman Intl. owns the Mark Levinson brand name and is selling/promoting their sound systems in the Lexus et.al. high-end cars.
    I understand completely.

    Of course Levinson did sell his name to Harman and I can't fault him for making money off his name. The Lexus comment was more my way of sneaking in yet another reference to boring cars with designer names on their audio systems in contrast to cars that make you just not care if they even have a sound system at all.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  15. #75
    Senior Member Rudy Kleimann's Avatar
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    Back to the topic, please...

    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    I understand completely.

    Of course Levinson did sell his name to Harman and I can't fault him for making money off his name. The Lexus comment was more my way of sneaking in yet another reference to boring cars with designer names on their audio systems in contrast to cars that make you just not care if they even have a sound system at all.
    Yes, I get from your moniker and your previous avatar that you are a key member of the (local?) BMW Car Collectors Association, and your passion for such fine automobiles (driving machines, yes!) is to be admired.

    But can you leave the thrashing of other cars and other people out of the dialog and get back to the purpose of this thread and forum: JBL and other high-end audio gear?

    I believe the thread topic was regarding drivers... do you have anything to share on that topic?

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