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Thread: Is newer better : 4430 vs 1400 Array

  1. #46
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Would you believe that I'm thinking about taking my new Tannoy's apart and biasing the networks?
    Sure why not.

    If I had some 1400 Arrays I'd be taking them puppies apart and biasing those networks. That particular system is definitely worth the effort.
    They sure are

    What's enjoyable and fulfilling to some is tedious and pointless to me.
    Whatever floats your boat. I really enjoy rolling up my sleeves and getting my hands dirty. I end up with a pair of speakers I could not have otherwise afforded. I will gladly trade some time and effort for an outcome like that. I get paid back in spades everytime I listen to them even more so because I built them with my own 2 hands.
    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  2. #47
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    I'll be waiting for those BE diaphrams so I can get someone to build CC's xovers for my slew of 4430s.

  3. #48
    Senior Member JuniorJBL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post


    Would you believe that I'm thinking about taking my new Tannoy's apart and biasing the networks?
    Yes!!



    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    If I had some 1400 Arrays I'd be taking them puppies apart and biasing those networks. That particular system is definitely worth the effort.
    I have not yet heard a pair of 1400's with oem crossovers!!
    Always fun learning more.......

  4. #49
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    If your primary goal is low frequency extension then they could be considered even better than many newer JBLs... especially the L212 system!

    Ultimately it comes down to which compromises affect your enjoyment the least. To many people a nice Bose system is worth the acoustic compromise... OK, that was uncalled for!

    Seriously though, if what you want is ass kicking sound and you don't mind slightly less than stellar imaging or don't care about having the most neutral sounding speakers, then one of the big 43XX systems, a vintage Altec system, or a nice DIY system is really all you need and dropping big coin on one of these newer systems would be a waste of money.

    If on the other hand, you want a fairly neutral sound with good extension and low distortion but you don't mind missing a bit of imaging focus or the snappiest of dynamics, then a 250Ti or XPL system is probably all you would ever need.

    With the latest JBLs the trade off is low frequency extension... though with the 1400 Array, what is missing is pretty trivial... I personally couldn't live with the K2-S9800 or S9900 without a sub, but that is my choice. With the 1400 Array, room depending, in most cases I doubt you would ever want more or deeper bass.


    Widget
    If your primary goal is low frequency extension then they could be considered even better than many newer JBLs... especially the L212 system!

    Then here comes a question again,which one is the most low frequency extension speaker JBL ever made?
    46 lover

  5. #50
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    Thanks to the people who answered my original question and to those who added the interesting OT thoughts. It seems most people agree the 1400 Array is generally superior to the 4430s.

    It seems like CCing the 1400 Array crossover is a good idea. How would someone go about doing that ?

    The idea of SAM/ 2235 or other woofer is attractive. Is there anyway that a person with the mechanical skills to build such a system ,but not the knowledge to design crossovers etc ,could be guided through such a project in a pretty much step by step way ?

    I guess I better get on a plane and go hear the Arrays.

    Mike.

  6. #51
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Mile

    I built my pair up from scratch. Did the cabinets and CC crossover, I have a thread I will post a link too. The CC networks are actually very simple to convert too once you understand the basics of how to make the conversion. If I was going to do it again I would just purchase a couple of SAM's and go from there. When I built my pair you could get the horns from JBL. That's not the case any longer.

    Rob

    CC Networks

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...sed-Capacitors

    Array Build

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ight=DIY+aRRAY
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ando View Post
    Thanks to the people who answered my original question and to those who added the interesting OT thoughts. It seems most people agree the 1400 Array is generally superior to the 4430s.

    It seems like CCing the 1400 Array crossover is a good idea. How would someone go about doing that ?

    The idea of SAM/ 2235 or other woofer is attractive. Is there anyway that a person with the mechanical skills to build such a system ,but not the knowledge to design crossovers etc ,could be guided through such a project in a pretty much step by step way ?

    I guess I better get on a plane and go hear the Arrays.

    Mike.
    Mike there is no no need to get on a plane if you live in or around Sydney. You are welcome to come are here mine.
    IMO CCing a pair of 1400's wouldn't make much difference. The mid range and top end is very clean.

  8. #53
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    IMO CCing a pair of 1400's wouldn't make much difference. The mid range and top end is very clean.
    Yep, everyone knows all this shit sounds the same, we just pretend there are differences in loudspeakers, amps, cables, source material, damping, biasing, etc. and bullshit each other all day long about it.
    The CC networks are actually very simple to convert too once you understand the basics of how to make the conversion.
    I'd use Greg's battery-free diode method if starting from scratch.

  9. #54
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ando View Post
    Thanks to the people who answered my original question and to those who added the interesting OT thoughts. It seems most people agree the 1400 Array is generally superior to the 4430s.

    It seems like CCing the 1400 Array crossover is a good idea. How would someone go about doing that ?

    The idea of SAM/ 2235 or other woofer is attractive. Is there anyway that a person with the mechanical skills to build such a system ,but not the knowledge to design crossovers etc ,could be guided through such a project in a pretty much step by step way ?

    I guess I better get on a plane and go hear the Arrays.

    Mike.
    Go searching 4313B's posts,he is an expert on CCcing.
    46 lover

  10. #55
    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
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    It does beg the question of why these (very expensive) speakers did not have CC networks to begin with, it it makes that much of a difference....


    jblnut

  11. #56
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    It does beg the question of why these (very expensive) speakers did not have CC networks to begin with, it it makes that much of a difference....
    They nickel and dime every system. Would you believe the 1501FE has nickel binding posts instead of the gold binding posts of the 1501AL? Yep, they're that tightly controlled... A price point is a price point, today now more than ever.

    And the 1400 Array really isn't all that expensive. Now, a $40 million dollar CEO, that's expensive.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vW54lAtldI

  12. #57
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I'd use Greg's battery-free diode method if starting from scratch.
    You have a quick reference schematic and what diode they use??


    It does beg the question of why these (very expensive) speakers did not have CC networks to begin with, it it makes that much of a difference....
    It's not night and day it's subtle it's there and it's worth it IMHO. I have not built a network without it. Even my compression driver compensation on my active set-up is CC.


    Thanks Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Would you believe the 1501FE has nickel binding posts instead of the gold binding posts of the 1501AL?
    I believe mine are gold plated or gold colored or something. Maybe gold spray paint over nickel.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    You have a quick reference schematic and what diode they use??
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    It's not night and day it's subtle it's there and it's worth it IMHO. I have not built a network without it. Even my compression driver compensation on my active set-up is CC.
    Add Greg's "The results are staggering" to "It doesn't make that much of a difference" and then divide by two for the net result?
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffW View Post
    I believe mine are gold plated or gold colored or something. Maybe gold spray paint over nickel.
    Maybe they had a bigger budget when they made your pair. Mine are newer.
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  15. #60
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweet212 View Post
    IMO CCing a pair of 1400's wouldn't make much difference. The mid range and top end is very clean.
    I'm a big fan of Beryllium and while I have yet to build a CC'd network, the next network I build will be CC'd... that said, I am perfectly happy with the stock aquaplassed aluminum mid and standard networks in the stock 1400 Array.

    At some point I may build a pair of clones and if I do, I'll base it on SAMs and probably keep the stock drivers... but since I would need to build 1400 Array networks anyway, they would certainly be CC'd.


    Widget

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