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Thread: Is newer better : 4430 vs 1400 Array

  1. #16
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    I haven't heard the 4430's in many years, but I replaced my S/2600's with Array 1400's a few months ago, and I can verify that the Array 1400 is significantly better. It is more directional, however, and doesn't have the wide sweet spot that the 2600 has. And it is certainly better for my primary use, which is in a home theater.

  2. #17
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    I am happy that technological progress and the art of speaker making is advancing. Unfortunately, it'll take me some years before I can catch up, especially with the prices of the new gear.

    What part/s of the LE14 make it that much better?

  3. #18
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    What makes the H-3 that much better than the H-1 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I never asked what happened to the LE14H-2.
    (heard that all the H-2's were used up in the Aquarius 3 production run )
    A man on foot or a bike will see more, feel more, enjoy more in one mile than the motorized tourists can in a hundred miles

  4. #19
    Senior Member audiomagnate's Avatar
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    Just my 2 cents, but I think the 1400 is the most realistic speaker I've ever heard, and I've wasted all of my youth and much of my middle age chasing down the perfect speaker. If you're looking for "real" the 1400s are the way to go, in my humble opinion.

  5. #20
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    I personally have no animosity towards the 2235H
    Nor have I. One chooses his compromises to suit his taste and I have always prefered something like a 2220 augmented with a sub or two.

    These 1400 Arrays are the first speakers that I have not felt the absolute need for subs. There are two 1500 Array subs parked next to my 1400's and I don't yet have them integrated in to the point I would claim them an absolute improvement. Most of the time they are out of the loop and off.

    I don't usually talk about who, what, where but a couple of weeks ago I drove up to see Widget and hear the Everest's, after a while we slid a pair of 1400 Arrays next to them and just swapped the wires and what a shock it was that the 1400's could even compare. Everest's they are not, great speakers they certainly are.

    This would be as good a time as any to publicly thank you Widget, that opportunity was greatly appreciated!
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  6. #21
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    The pleasure was mine... it was fun sharing!

    Anyone else interested in a demo... shoot me a PM and we can try to set up a time.


    Widget

  7. #22
    Senior Member JBLAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    hear the Everest's, after a while we slid a pair of 1400 Arrays next to them and just swapped the wires and what a shock it was that the 1400's could even compare. Everest's they are not, great speakers they certainly are.
    Everests are aptly named, end of story. My experience with them still haunts. They make it virtually impossible to want more or imagine there's better.

    The only time I've ever sat in a room completely mesmerized, knowing full well it'll never be as good again.....they have to be heard to be understood
    Performance Series 5.1/1990s L1.L5.L7/L100A
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  8. #23
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    The pleasure was mine... it was fun sharing!

    Anyone else interested in a demo... shoot me a PM and we can try to set up a time.


    Widget
    I have great interesting in your demo,but how about flight ticket?joking
    Having heard E2 for several times,in fact it doesn't give me too much feeling
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  9. #24
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    Nor have I. One chooses his compromises to suit his taste and I have always prefered something like a 2220 augmented with a sub or two.

    These 1400 Arrays are the first speakers that I have not felt the absolute need for subs. There are two 1500 Array subs parked next to my 1400's and I don't yet have them integrated in to the point I would claim them an absolute improvement. Most of the time they are out of the loop and off.

    I don't usually talk about who, what, where but a couple of weeks ago I drove up to see Widget and hear the Everest's, after a while we slid a pair of 1400 Arrays next to them and just swapped the wires and what a shock it was that the 1400's could even compare. Everest's they are not, great speakers they certainly are.

    This would be as good a time as any to publicly thank you Widget, that opportunity was greatly appreciated!
    It's a big strange that s9800,s9800se,s9900,and even 66000 don't go so much deeper than i expected.
    46 lover

  10. #25
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    The 1400 Array has the most extended low frequency response of all the recent JBL designs. Greg went over it all with me in detail but I have since forgotten the specifics. If I remember correctly he said something to the effect that the 1400 Array was set to be ~ 7 dB down at 30 Hz while most of the fifteen-inch designs were set to be ~ 13 dB down at 30 Hz (anechoic, Harman's large chamber is "only" good to around 25 Hz).

    That said, the 1400 Array still doesn't have quite the bottom end of the 250Ti, the box volume just isn't there in the 1400 Array. It probably would have looked even "funnier" with the larger 4 cu ft box.

    The fifteen-inch designs are all "extended bass" type designs with the "banana curve" instead of the "shelf" while the 1400 Array design is more like the classic JBL, low Q, quasi-butterworth third-order designs.

  11. #26
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    The 1400 Array has the most extended low frequency response of all the recent JBL designs. Greg went over it all with me in detail but I have since forgotten the specifics. If I remember correctly he said something to the effect that the 1400 Array was set to be ~ 7 dB down at 30 Hz while most of the fifteen-inch designs were set to be ~ 13 dB down at 30 Hz (anechoic, Harman's large chamber is "only" good to around 25 Hz).

    That said, the 1400 Array still doesn't have quite the bottom end of the 250Ti, the box volume just isn't there in the 1400 Array. It probably would have looked even "funnier" with the larger 4 cu ft box.

    The fifteen-inch designs are all "extended bass" type designs with the "banana curve" instead of the "shelf" while the 1400 Array design is more like the classic JBL, low Q, quasi-butterworth third-order designs.
    Wow, interesting post.... so some of the 1980's gear ain't quite as bad as some here make it out to be ?
    A man on foot or a bike will see more, feel more, enjoy more in one mile than the motorized tourists can in a hundred miles

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    Wow, interesting post.... so some of the 1980's gear ain't quite as bad as some here make it out to be ?
    It's a long story.

    The short story is that some of the very expensive newer JBL systems make for some very worthy upgrades but you have to pay for it. The bang for the buck isn't what it was in the 70's and 80's (JBL was considered grossly overpriced back then too).

  13. #28
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    Wow, interesting post.... so some of the 1980's gear ain't quite as bad as some here make it out to be ?
    Who says the 80's gear is all that bad?? The only thing I see is many think the newer systems are better. I would hope they would be 30 years down the road. That doesn't take anything away for a pair of L250Ti or a pair of XPL 200's. They are what they are.

    the 1400 Array still doesn't have quite the bottom end of the 250Ti
    All you have to do is put them in a larger box which is what I did when I built my Array clones. I use LE-14's as subs in 4 cubic ft boxes and they do not disapoint.

    Rob
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Who says the 80's gear is all that bad?? The only thing I see is many think the newer systems are better. I would hope they would be 30 years down the road. That doesn't take anything away for a pair of L250Ti or a pair of XPL 200's. They are what they are.
    Exactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    All you have to do is put them in a larger box which is what I did when I built my Array clones. I use LE-14's as subs in 4 cubic ft boxes and they do not disapoint.
    Yep.

  15. #30
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    Wow, interesting post.... so some of the 1980's gear ain't quite as bad as some here make it out to be ?
    If your primary goal is low frequency extension then they could be considered even better than many newer JBLs... especially the L212 system!

    Ultimately it comes down to which compromises affect your enjoyment the least. To many people a nice Bose system is worth the acoustic compromise... OK, that was uncalled for!

    Seriously though, if what you want is ass kicking sound and you don't mind slightly less than stellar imaging or don't care about having the most neutral sounding speakers, then one of the big 43XX systems, a vintage Altec system, or a nice DIY system is really all you need and dropping big coin on one of these newer systems would be a waste of money.

    If on the other hand, you want a fairly neutral sound with good extension and low distortion but you don't mind missing a bit of imaging focus or the snappiest of dynamics, then a 250Ti or XPL system is probably all you would ever need.

    With the latest JBLs the trade off is low frequency extension... though with the 1400 Array, what is missing is pretty trivial... I personally couldn't live with the K2-S9800 or S9900 without a sub, but that is my choice. With the 1400 Array, room depending, in most cases I doubt you would ever want more or deeper bass.


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