JBL Performance Series

[Titanium Dome]

I'll have to weigh in here, and, in the process, I'll be calling Giskard out to reveal some more of the "secrets" he's keeping about the Performance Series. Bonjour, Giskard.

As I've stated here (or in another thread or in another forum or in a dream in my brain), the Performance Series stack (PT800 + PS1400) is a direct descendent of the L212, L250, 250Ti line. IMO it has better drivers, a more functional baffle, and greater flexibility than any of those earlier iterations. The flexibility I'm touting, of course, is the ability to separate the modules and place them where you need/want them. The only way to do that with a 250Ti would be to use a chain saw.

But together or separate, I really think the PT800 and PS1400 must be considered two parts of the same speaker. In that regard, when you've only got the top piece, you've got 3/4 of the drivers and 1/3 of the cabinet volume that was intended. So in thinking about pairing PT800s to a "sub" I believe it's helpful to think of the "sub" as the woofer or LF driver of the Performance Series stack, just like the LE14H-x is the woofer of the 250Ti. It's an extension of the response curve of the other three drivers.

This may not materially affect the outcome of whatever you do to in terms of getting a "sub" for the PT800s, but I really think it's important to consider these units in this "whole system" approach; otherwise, thinking about it as the traditional sub/satellite set up might sell it short.

I acknowledge some of what I'm saying flies in the face of JBL's marketing approach for these speakers. My observations are based on comments I've read from the designer and on my own experience. At least that's my spin on it.

[Titanium Dome]

Oh yeah, while I'm on the soap box let me say this. The Performance Series stack is by design a two amplifier system, one of which is supplied by JBL in the PS1400 enclosure. You supply the other amp. This makes the stack either a passively bi-amped or activley bi-wired system--I've long since given up trying to figure out which.

Also, here's the thread where my PhotoShop magic turns the "missing link" between the 250Ti and the Performance Series stack, the "XPL250," into a two module system. See post #5, and ask youself why I never made a living doing this kind of photo doctoring for the criminal underworld.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ormance+series

[4313B]

"I'll be calling Giskard out to reveal some more of the "secrets" he's keeping about the Performance Series."

They wouldn't be secrets then would they. I think everyone should own the set. Really. Seriously. No, I'm not kidding.

"As I've stated here (or in another thread or in another forum or in a dream in my brain), the Performance Series stack (PT800 + PS1400) is a direct descendent of the L212, L250, 250Ti line."

Yep, the same gentleman had a major hand in every one of those models you mention. Isn't he awesome!? It's been a long, long time since the 4315 and L212... it seems like only yesterday, until I start counting all the model numbers...

"Also, here's the thread where my PhotoShop magic turns the "missing link" between the 250Ti and the Performance Series stack, the "XPL250," into a two module system. See post #5, and ask youself why I never made a living doing this kind of photo doctoring for the criminal underworld."

Well you've just leaked the basic design of my XPL250's..... thanks for the 32-bit color visual.

[mikebake]

But together or separate, I really think the PT800 and PS1400 must be considered two parts of the same speaker. In that regard, when you've only got the top piece, you've got 3/4 of the drivers and 1/3 of the cabinet volume that was intended. So in thinking about pairing PT800s to a "sub" I believe it's helpful to think of the "sub" as the woofer or LF driver of the Performance Series stack, just like the LE14H-x is the woofer of the 250Ti. It's an extension of the response curve of the other three drivers.

This may not materially affect the outcome of whatever you do to in terms of getting a "sub" for the PT800s, but I really think it's important to consider these units in this "whole system" approach; otherwise, thinking about it as the traditional sub/satellite set up might sell it short.

I see your point. I also think that in my case using sub1500's in a proper box, may yield even better results. I agree that the choice of sub is highly important, and in that respect I assert that the sub1500 walks all over most other choices, including the stock unit.
In my case, I intend to dock the PT800's using the factory hardware, to the sub1500 cabinets, which apparently will look something like larger PS1400's. As for the transient response differences that may exist between the PS1400 and sub1500 drivers, I don't think its much of an issue for me, if it exists. The sub1500 driver has a heavy cone, but I'm not really asking it to go up all that high. And its VLF ability in this arrangement exceeds the PS1400's.

Incidentally, you might be amused to know that Giskard now has my PT800's and PC600 at his house.............I imagine he may tell us his impressions at some time, but obviously he is predisposed to liking this design, knowing its heritage and designer.
He brought me the reconed 2235's and some test boxes for the sub1500's, so it was a good excuse for him to give the Performance series some extended listening.
BTW, Mr. Dome, I do appreciate your touting the series, and all the info and insights. They certainly caused me to steer in that direction. Thanks.

[mikebake]

In further defense of the Performance Series; obviously they intended the sub1500 for the Revel, and the subsequent price tag. Pairing a factory built 1500 with the the PT800 wouldn't make sense. In that respect, the pricing of the Performance Series looks pretty good!

[Skoda]

Have aby of you ever heard the HT series from JBL and/or compared to the performance?


By the way nice set up

[Titanium Dome]

Have aby of you ever heard the HT series from JBL and/or compared to the performance?


By the way nice set up

Yes. Quite a different sound, but one that I like very much. And I dig the Symmetrical Vertcal Array, which I believe we see echoed in the Project May loudspeaker. For all intents and purposes, the HT Series is what's left of the SVA Series, and if you compared an SVA1500 to the HT4V and an SVA Center to the HT4H, you'd see the family resemblence. What's missing are the SVA1600, SVA1800, and SVA1800 models, all discontinued.

The horn-based, dual woofer design is a killer for HT and it pumps out the volume for rock'n'roll, but it falls short of the Performance Series as a music system. JBL solved the problem of the SVA1500 not having any low end by putting the HTPS 400 12" sub in the line with its 1000W amp.

I've got a pair of SVA1800s, and I wouldn't give 'em up, but the Performance Series is in my opinion a far superior product. That's why I'm an "inverted dome metalhead" and not an SVA addict.

[4313B]

Mike, these are really good... I had to put the grilles back on because how they look and how they sound don't jive.

G.T. was right. Imagine that!

But together or separate, I really think the PT800 and PS1400 must be considered two parts of the same speaker.

One of my requirements for the PT800's is that they operate with other JBL VLF systems as did the L212 panels.

[mikebake]

"how they look and how they sound don't jive"


Now, you know you have just defined a phrase with respect to them that I will never be able to forget when listening to them!! Interesting idea, that.


Now I will have to ponder the what/wherefore/why..................

BTW, I must have intuited that, because I put them on from the get-go; didn't want to be staring at the metal, just listening to the tunes!

Item 14-B; I have ALWAYS had this BIG thing about people judging speakers by their sound and NOT being able to see them. I did a blind listening thing at MAF, trying to get to the point that alot of the high-end stuff was crap in comparison to some solid stuff, and that if snooty audiophiles didn't see what they were listening to, besides being very uncomfortable with the prospect, the speakers they would pick as sounding best might really shock them.

Dr. Bruce Edgar quote " I always say, people see what they hear, and hear what they see".

We agree.

[mikebake]

BTW, what kind of material did you listen to on them, so far?

[4313B]

"didn't want to be staring at the metal"

Yep, as pretty as they are, they are a distraction. There's a whole lotta metal staring back at you.

These are really good little loudspeakers. I'd definitely consider trying out charge-coupled filters with these components some day.

[mikebake]

What are you using for LF? And perhaps you might describe them vs. 4430's?

[4313B]

BTW, what kind of material did you listen to on them, so far?

Steely Dan
John Klemmer
Joni Mitchell
Carol King
Checkfield
Lee Ritenour
The Cardigans
The Cars
Ronnie Jordan
The Blackbyrds
Michael Jackson
Spyro Gyra
Thom Rotella
Diane Schuur
Sam Riney
Big Head Todd and the Monsters
Vince Guaraldi
Russ Freeman
Larry Carlton
Men at Work
The Police
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Swing Out Sister
Sade

Nothing super special.

What are you using for LF? And perhaps you might describe them vs. 4430's?

LE14H-1's for VLF right now. LE14H-1's turned off half the time so I can compare the 8-inch with the old 112H/2108H. Different than the 4430's. Have you got the 4430's up and running? One should probably own a pair of 4430's regardless of whether or not they own the Performance Series. At some point you might want to make a choice but not for awhile I wouldn't think.

[mikebake]

More questions; any idea of max SPL for the 800's? Also, comparison to XPL250?

[4313B]

I don't have my XPL250 networks finished. I'm working on two charge-coupled 250Ti and four 4435 networks right now.

No idea on max SPL. I haven't really romped on them yet.