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Thread: JBL Performance Series

  1. #1006
    Senior Member porschedpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    There's a passive crossover before the amp that sends the LF to the sub amp and everything else to the PT800. The LF is sorted out as line level, while the rest is sent speaker level (and amplified by your 300W amp) to the PT800.
    Thanks for the response. If that's the case I'm thinking I can probably get by with a smaller amp for the PT800's. 300w/ch might be a bit of an overkill for them.

  2. #1007
    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by porschedpm View Post
    I have the PT800/PS1400 combo and docked together. I am running power to these from a 300w/ch amp using conventional speaker wire. The question I have is: when wired in this configuration, is the internal amp in the PS1400 bypassed or is it always inline? And if the internal amp is always inline, does it also power the PT800. I looked in the owners guide and couldn't find the answers to these questions. What do you guys think.

    Quote Originally Posted by porschedpm View Post
    I'm thinking I can probably get by with a smaller amp for the PT800's. 300w/ch might be a bit of an overkill for them.
    yes, the amp is always on ( flip the switch of course - ha)and it powers the LE14-3,your amp powers the PT800.. Personally if it were me, I'll leave the 300 watt amp as it could provide some real headroom. I'm using a 200 watt Marantz MA700 mono to each PT800


    the PS1400 and PT800 stack is a very interesting design. However, all is not what it appears with this configuration....

    If you want to play around here's somethings I have tried....When I first got them I tried to Bi-amp them using my ashly active crossover..

    1. Crossed-over at 130... higher freq's powered by it's own amp and wires running driectly into the speaker inputs on the pT800; ran the lower side into FLE/subwoofer input - bass sounded weak and totally unbalanced with the PT800..THEN..

    2. same as above for the high side, but fed the lower freq into a 400 watt amp and then ran wires from the amp into the LF speaker wire inputs...same problem - weak bass and unbalanced with the PT800.

    No amount of adjusting the LFE or LF volumn made any real difference( always unbalanced)..... the only reason i could figure is that the design of the PS1400 crossover( and equalizer) is expecting a full range signal and any change to this, such as sending the PS1400 a signal already adjusted with a crossover, changed the "tuning" and response of the PS1400 over all and would always sound unbalance with the PT800 when stacked. I was really surprised when using the LFE input as I figured that bypassed the PS1400 crossover. At first the only solution I could come up with was to totally disconnect the PS1400 crossover and amp and just run the wires directly to the LE14-3, which I did not want to do.


    However, i alway felt that some form of bi-amping HAD to improve the over all sound..if for no other reason than to bypass all the connections from the PS1400 to the PS800.

    When Russ and his wife was here one Sunday ( Rusnzha), I showed Russ the results of the above trials and he came to the same conclusion... THEN..I took the time to try something I had been thinking of for awhile.........and the difference was stunning...

    I split the Right and Left signal directly from the output of the pre-amp ( each with a full signal), one set went into the ashly cossover ( set at 130) and the high side into an amp ( ma700) and then into the PT800. The second left and right full signal I ran into a 400 watt amp ( mac ) and then ran wires from the mac into the speaker wire inputs on the PS1400 letting the PS1400 crossover do it's job... incredible sound....

    At first using a separate 400 watt amp to run into the PS1400 amp may seem redundant ( well, it is) however, it's the only way i've been able to bi-amp the PS stack with ANY reasonable sound AND it's the only way I know to get the PS1400 crossover to do it's job.

    One thing I've realized about the amp in the PS1400, is that it takes on the characteristics of whatever amp it's being fed.

    When I first played the PS stack with this last configuartion both Russ and and I looked at each with stunned looks.. WOW what a sound.... The most noticeable difference is the clarity of the PT800, hate to use such tried expressions, but really, it was like a veil being removed, particualrly with the upper mids and highs...

    well, got to go to work. I thought maybe this was a good time to throw this out to the forum..

    Try it and see what you get..

  3. #1008
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    I'm feeding the bottom of my stacks with the low level sub output from my AV processor. I'm using long RCA cables going to the input jacks on the sub. I have found that I have to set the sub output to +10db on the processor to get it to balance with the PT800s. This is with the volume control on the back of the sub turned all the way up. It's not like a Velodyne or some other subs, there's no extra gain to fool with in the sub amp.

  4. #1009
    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don C View Post
    I'm feeding the bottom of my stacks with the low level sub output from my AV processor. I'm using long RCA cables going to the input jacks on the sub. I have found that I have to set the sub output to +10db on the processor to get it to balance with the PT800s. This is with the volume control on the back of the sub turned all the way up. It's not like a Velodyne or some other subs, there's no extra gain to fool with in the sub amp.
    yes, I tried that and every other thingy, the last situation is the ONLY way, I've been able to get any true balance ( everyones milage will vary of course). I tried using the gain control on the ashly for the lower freq. but it didn't work to my satisfaction either. And it just wasn't the balance either, it was the sound too... BTW, I'm using speakers in Stereo ( mac stereo pre-amp etc) so, LFE had to come from the ashly only.

    When I put the PS series trans into the 250 box, the PS 1400 crossover, amp and other goodies are NOT coming along with the LE14-3. Going to bi-amp and run the wires straight to the woofer.

  5. #1010
    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    Don:

    I have a question on your setup. How do you control what freq you're running to the pS1400 ( or what Freqs are going there)?

    are you using them that way in HT or stereo or both?

    take care

  6. #1011
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    I'm letting the AV processor handle the frequency division, by setting the mains to small, and setting the subwoofer to on. I'm running it this way for everything. It seems to work OK, but I do still fiddle with the subwoofer level on the processor quite a lot. I think that the +10 setting is needed due to the "LFE bug" that I've read about at AVS forums and elsewhere. But different discs seem to require adjustments between +7 to +12 to give a balanced sound. Eventually, I'm going to rip all of the electronics out of the sub and retune the sub to take advantage of the extra airspace inside the cabinet. Or I may just get rid of this sub cabinet and obtain something larger. The best sound that I've ever had from this setup was when I was running the Fosgate FS400 passive sub with an external crossover, so I'd like to get back closer to that setup.

  7. #1012
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    Yep, that Fosgate sub's a banger, in every good sense of the word.

    Of course, the JBL driver helps.

  8. #1013
    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don C View Post
    I'm letting the AV processor handle the frequency division, by setting the mains to small, and setting the subwoofer to on. I'm running it this way for everything. It seems to work OK, but I do still fiddle with the subwoofer level on the processor quite a lot. .
    Ok, now I understand....once I got this last configuration completed the way i wanted it, it has stayed balanced CD to CD and the sound is wonderful..

    Quote Originally Posted by Don C View Post
    II think that the +10 setting is needed due to the "LFE bug" that I've read about at AVS forums and elsewhere. .
    I'm not aware of that bug( i'm only on this forum ), can you enlighten me as to what the "bug" is? Whatever it is, the PS1400 needs something when trying to bi-amp. I'm not sure if it's the smaller size ( LE14's are best around 4 CF) or if it's electronics or the amp. Of course the LE14's are not deeep subwoofers either - damn good bass and midbass woofers, but not subwoofers. But then again, I'm not into HT or subwoofers, I just wanted a good old fashion bi-amp stereo speaker.

    But the work I had to go thru with the PS1400 in biamping is just strange at best...

    I got the feeling when using the PS series stack it was either it's way, or the highway. Using the stack with it's own setup was very good, I just thought it could do more. I've at least proven that to myself once I tried this last setup

    Quote Originally Posted by Don C View Post
    . Or I may just get rid of this sub cabinet and obtain something larger. .
    That's what I first wanted to do, but that can be tricky also. Since I don't do HT and do the stereo thing, once I would do that i might as well start over ( thus...doing the 250 box thingy).

    Don't get me wrong here, the PS series stack is a wonderful speaker, and considering the design ( modualr HT) it does a really good job for stereo. It's a very clever design.....

  9. #1014
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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  10. #1015
    MJC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don C View Post
    I'm letting the AV processor handle the frequency division, by setting the mains to small, and setting the subwoofer to on. I'm running it this way for everything. It seems to work OK, but I do still fiddle with the subwoofer level on the processor quite a lot. I think that the +10 setting is needed due to the "LFE bug" that I've read about at AVS forums and elsewhere. But different discs seem to require adjustments between +7 to +12 to give a balanced sound. Eventually, I'm going to rip all of the electronics out of the sub and retune the sub to take advantage of the extra airspace inside the cabinet. Or I may just get rid of this sub cabinet and obtain something larger. The best sound that I've ever had from this setup was when I was running the Fosgate FS400 passive sub with an external crossover, so I'd like to get back closer to that setup.
    I find running the sub, using the receiver's sub XO menu, going to a Crown K2, and nothing else, works very well. Instead of the PS1400, I'm using two SUB1500s, no limiters or any other kind of electronics in the sub box.
    So with the main L/R PT800s mounted on top of the SUB1500s gives me in reality, biamped, full range mains.
    The one thing lacking is having stereo sub outs on the receiver.

  11. #1016
    Senior Member JBLnsince1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don C View Post
    Thanks Don, much appreciated...

  12. #1017
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    There's a little love for the HTPS400 here:

    http://www.electronichouse.com/slide...ategory/180/27

  13. #1018
    MJC
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    added spikes to subs

    I just add spikes(parts express) to the sub1500 boxes, which have the PT800s mounted on top, sure makes the bass cleaner and the sound from the PT800s more detailed.
    Mike Bake, I was just looking at your PT800/sub1500 pics. Looks like your sub boxes are sitting right on the floor w/o any feet, is that right?

    I had 2" dia x 1 1/4" high mdf feet on my subs boxes, but took them off in favor of the spikes.

  14. #1019
    Dis Member mikebake's Avatar
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    Got spikes sitting here for 5 months, have not installed, not a problem since I haven't had the system hooked up since February............

  15. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikebake View Post
    not a problem since I haven't had the system hooked up since February............
    Uh oh! Do I owe you a deliverable that I've forgotten about?

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