JBL Performance Series

[MJC]

Looking at the new JBL Web page for the Performance Series, I gotta say,

Yes, I thought the same thing. How can a horn loaded speaker have the same timbre match of an all Ti speaker?
But the HTPS400 sub never was part of the PS, it belongs to the Synthesis line. Its just that the PS is really only available thru Synthesis dealers (except Tweeters) and they prefer to use the HTPS400 sub over the PS1400 sub, being its smaller and has more power.
Only the Synthesis Four is really the same as the PS. The S4VC is really the in-wall THX version of the PT800, and the S4HC is the in-wall THX version of the PC600.

[Titanium Dome]

From JBL's 2005 CES press release:

A variety of loudspeakers is available to create a broad range of on-wall- and in-wall-based systems. Available models include the Performance P941 and P81 advanced-technology in-wall speakers, as well as the Performance PT800 tower main/surround loudspeaker and Performance PC600 center channel speaker. Rounding out the lineup are the Performance PS1400 14-inch, 400-watt powered subwoofer, and JBL’s HTPS400 12-inch, 1000-watt powered subwoofer.

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messag...81/118828.html

So as early as 2005, the HTPS400 had been "borrowed" from the by-then defunct HT Series to become a part of the Performance Series.

Its CEDIA 2006 press release indicates that the HTSP400 is still part of the Performance Series.

In addition to the PS1400, available subwoofers include the HTPS400 (12-inch woofer, built-in 1000-watt amplifier), which features a compact enclosure that enables it to be readily placed in a variety of room locations; the PS10SW (10-inch woofer, 150 watts); the PS12SW (12-inch woofer, 250 watts); and the SS88IWS, which can be mounted between standard 16-inch wall studs.

http://www.hometoys.com/show_news.ph...ew&id=10513348

This announcement includes the dubiously renamed Northridge E Series subs, which made the list in the new Web site Performance Series page, while the HTPS isn't there. It is listed as the sub for the resurrected HT Series, though.

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/ser...=US&Region=USA

In any event, it matches well with the Performance Series wherever it ends up in the product matrix.

[MJC]

I remember seeing that article in Jan '05.
I was just looking at the P941, looks quite impressive. The description of the P35 seems to be a more likely match to the Studio L Series, having a combination of Ti tweeter and PolyPlas drivers, where as the 941 has Organic Ceramic Composite drivers.
With all these different kinds of speakers in the same line one would have to pay attention to what speakers he was going to mix in a system. Then again if going thru a Synthesis dealer the dealer should have the expertise in proper matching speakers for a system.

[Titanium Dome]

(snip)
With all these different kinds of speakers in the same line one would have to pay attention to what speakers he was going to mix in a system. Then again if going thru a Synthesis dealer the dealer should have the expertise in proper matching speakers for a system.

Yes, hopefully... but the few Synthesis dealers I've dealt with all had the upselling mentality. They wouldn't even sell me the Performance Series because they wanted to sell the more profitable Synthesis systems. "We don't sell that. We find that people who are really serious about their sound want the best. We could order it, I suppose, if you want to pay up front. It might be three or four months. No refunds."

With that kind of attitude, I'm not sure this broad line of Performance gear has any real chance in the hands of Synthesis dealers.

[Don C]

This addition of more models could be a good sign. Maybe they will start distibuting the whole series to more dealers now.

[MJC]

This addition of more models could be a good sign. Maybe they will start distibuting the whole series to more dealers now.

Most dealers only have speakers when a customer orders them.
The only dealer around here now works out of his house after getting ripped off. He had a set of speakers for an install delivered to his office and somebody knew about it and broke in that night. That had to hurt.
Those of us here know the REAL PS is quite different from the rest of the speakers(timbre wise).
Over at HT Discussion a guy had a post a few weeks ago saying he was going with all JBLs for his HT and listed the ones he was going to buy. The list was comprised of speakers from at least 3 completely different lines, he didn't have a clue that they wouldn't be a good match.
With the Performance lineup, as it is now, would make it even more confusing for the average joe.

[Titanium Dome]

Oh, hey, someone has some real PS now: five PT800s for $2500. Very nice, indeed!

So, worth $500 each? You bet! You got a great deal, and whether you compare them to PT800s that cost their owners $285 or $1150 or $1700 each, their real value is whether or not you're happy with them and feel they're worth the price of admission.

There are very few, fortunate people out there who've paid $500 for a new speaker of that quality and performance, and even fewer who've heard a speaker like that and can even talk about it in other than theoretical terms.

As you and your ears settle in, it'll be interesting to see your impressions.

I opened up a pair of the PT800s and put them in the main L/R positions of the HT, sitting on L212 bases. Mostly listened to DVD-A in 2-channel, then a movie. At this time they sound very simular to the mirrored, CC L212s, but on certain songs, I'm very familiar with, I heard instruments I don't remember hearing while listening thru any other speakers. Very detailed.
I've got many options as to how and how many of these speakers I'm going to use. Might load all 5 in the HT and put the mirrored L212s in the other room connected to the turntable, and three of the other L212s in the MB. That will leave one pair of 212s as back channels in the HT.
That will free up the Studio L 890s for my daughter's wedding present.
Decisions, decisions.

"Very detailed" was one of the first things I noticed, too. Let us know what else you discover as you (and the speakers) break in.

BTW, I'm forgetting what sub you're using with the L212s (and temporarily with the PT800s).

[MJC]

Oh, hey, someone has some real PS now: five PT800s for $2500. Very nice, indeed!
So, worth $500 each? You bet!
"Very detailed" was one of the first things I noticed, too. Let us know what else you discover as you (and the speakers) break in.

BTW, I'm forgetting what sub you're using with the L212s (and temporarily with the PT800s).

When I kept seeing $1100 or $1150, which ever it was, for refurbs, earlier this year, I figured I'd never get any PT800s. Never thought I would get a 5 channel system for $2500.
Consider this, it cost me $500/ea to build my 3 front L212s, with upgraded bypass xovers. Then I built two CC networks, to replace the Bypass in the main L/R @ $150/ea, give or take. And the total cost for those was worth every penny. So $500/ea for a totally updated L212, which is what the PT800s really are, is certainly worth it.
The subs I've been using in the HT are a pair of sub1500s. They are going to stay there. I'll mount the main PT800s to them as the L212s were.
The mirror L212s go to the turntable system with at least one of my other subs
The center L212 along with two of the original L212s will go in the MB. I might as well replace those original xovers with the bypass xovers, then all three will have the same xovers.
There will be no lack of fairly high end JBLs around here. And the 3 L55s will be retired, unless I decide to use their LE14As to build two more subs.
Or coarse, there is still the thought, as others here have mentioned, to build a pair of 250Ti type speakers using the PT800s with a subs enclosed in the same box.

[MJC]

As with the Studio L890s the PT800s is a much nicer looking speaker than the pic reveal on the web.
One thing I didn't realize is the PT800's width is a full 3" narrower than the L212s. And that fact along with the chamfered corners makes them appear much smaller than the L212s. Not as narrow as the L890s, but not as deep either.
So now its time to unbox the other 3 PT800s and do some speaker re-arrangement.
Good thing I don't need any subs, JBL's online store still shows "no subs available." I wonder if that means synthesis dealers don't have any either?

[mikebake]

Good thing I don't need any subs, JBL's online store still shows "no subs available."

The PS1400 is a nice sounding sub, and the on board amp is handy, but with sub1500's, you are handled.

[MJC]

The PS1400 is a nice sounding sub, and the on board amp is handy, but with sub1500's, you are handled.

Now I wish I had bought 4 sub1500s. Then I could keep one pair on the mirror L212s and the other for the PS HT. But having the various connection setups that the PS1400 has would be a good thing too. Being able to run the main L/R full range and also have the LFE input to the subs.

[MJC]

Well, I got all 5 PT800s setup. Two are bolted to the tops of the sub1500s, the one being used for the center is below the screen and tilted back and the other two mounted to the side walls.
I found out, as I remember reading in a review, that if they are too close to crts they will distort the color. I had to set the center a little farther away from the front of the RPTV.
It takes one word to discribe the PT800, OUTSTANDING! And they're not even broke-in yet. I need to get more DVD-audio and sacd discs to feed these beauties.

[mikebake]

They're broken in........

[MJC]

One thing I've noticed using a PT800 for a center, compared to using a L212 for a center, is that the dialog/sound seems to be at the same elevation as the L/R towers, even though the PT800 is at the same position and angle. That is sitting on the floor and tilted back. With the L212 the sound seemed to be just a tad low. The difference could be that the 112A in the L212 is more robust than the 8" in the PS, or the EOS waveguide on the tweeter. Then again the dialog, in both cases should be from the mid-range. What ever the reason, its an improvement.
At the same master volume level the output is a bit lower, at least 3 db, than with the L212 system. Now its set @ -22~-20, where as before it was @ -25, for the satellite input.
Its been most of 5 years since I first read about the PS but the sound this system produces more than makes up for the wait.

[Titanium Dome]

Well, I got all 5 PT800s setup. Two are bolted to the tops of the sub1500s, the one being used for the center is below the screen and tilted back and the other two mounted to the side walls.
I found out, as I remember reading in a review, that if they are too close to crts they will distort the color. I had to set the center a little farther away from the front of the RPTV.
It takes one word to discribe the PT800, OUTSTANDING! And they're not even broke-in yet. I need to get more DVD-audio and sacd discs to feed these beauties.

I have to admit that I didn't have much interest in multichannel audio 'til I got the Performance Series. I was very much into surround sound for movies, but I rarely enjoyed surround sound just for musical listening.

Since putting the PT800s and PC600 into the 7.1 configuration, I've been going out of my way to find multichannel discs, be they Pro-Logic, DTS, DD, DVD-A, or even SACD. The PS units made the whole thing so much more listenable and enjoyable.

I've got to believe that it's a combination of better clarity, better uniformity, better dispersion of the highs (EOS Waveguide), better placement (the PT800s allow pretty exact placement with no excuses for not putting them where they'll sound the best), better processing than I had before (Citation 5.0 replaced by FAPT1, now FAPT1+), and better amps (four Soundcraftsmen PCR800s replaced by FAA1000.5 pair).

Of course, it doesn't hurt that I love the sound of well-made Ti drivers, and these are quite nice.