JBL Performance Series

[JBLnsince1959]

Probably a worthy pursuit with a reasonable chance of improvement, but it'd be worth getting the full tech info on the supplied amp if it's available anywhere. It's my experience that amp topology has an effect here, and at least you'd know where your starting point was.

yes, I agree with you completely, it's not something I would want to do half-ass or as a knee-jerk reaction. That would have to be though out completely.


And mostly it's from a matter of just keeping things simple. If I build the external crossovers and I know that they will always be stacked for stereo then theres' no need for me to pass the signal thru that stuff. Just Keep It Simple. ( also, I firmly believe that the less the signal passes thru the less chance for it being changed for the worst). Personally I find nothing wrong with the built-in amp, it's very good...

Also, If someday I really get crazy and try to build a 250 performance series then the crossover is done.

But I know what you mean about information, or the lack of. There's not even a brochure for these speakers to explain more to the customer or if there is they aren't making it available. Can't get one from the dealers :dont-know , nothing on their web site ( there is for the TiK series)

I'm really amazed at the extraordinary effort the marketing dept. has gone thru to keep the public completely ignorant about these speakers. I can just hear the conversatation now if someone were to call JBL.

JBL: Hello...
US: yes, I was calling about the performance series speakers you have.

JBL: You...you KNOW about these?
US: why yes...I was wondering...

JBL: Let me interrupt one moment.. and JUST how did you hear about these? Not that I'm saying they exist mind you.
US: well from a few places.....on your web site and from a thread on the Lansing Heritage web site. They do exist don't they?

JBL: I can't tell you that!
US: excuse me???? Why can't you tell if me they even exist.

JBL: Well, I really can't say, because the marketing dept. and higher ups are still trying to figure out what to do with them.
US: then they do exist.

JBL: I didn't say that....
US : Is there anybody I can talk to?

JBL: about what?
US : the Performance Series

JBL: what's that?
US: well... thank you..I think

JBL: gald to have helped you, have a nice day

I just remembered that someone said that people from JBL read this thread to find out what we think, for a moment I had a feeling of Political Correctness and almost erased what I wrote, then I came to my senses.

[Mr. Widget]

I'm really amazed at the extraordinary effort the marketing dept. had gone to keep the public in complete ignorant about these things.

If you guys hadn't made some 500+ posts on these speakers, I know I'd never have run into them or even been made aware of their existence. I certainly never would have looked up their specs or found out that today's JBL was really this inept in marketing their product.

Widget

[Titanium Dome]

We are facing a paradox or two here.

We really do admire JBL and its capable workers, from the engineers and designers to the jig makers and tail offs (the folks who stack the boxes on the pallets). We're grateful for the commitment that Harman International has to serious speaker testing and development and for all the information it freely shares.

We're also grateful for the continuing support that JBL receives in a company with two other significant speaker lines and for the fact that it's still a full line top to bottom division that competes well in virtually all market segments. We're grateful that the Consumer and Pro groups provide such lengthy support for products that we hold dear and for the individuals who help us when questions and needs arise.

I personally am very gratified that JBL developed the Performance Series and gave me a line that has amazing bang for the buck. Its unique characteristics and innovative design set hit me squarely in the eyes, ears, mind, and heart, and I could even afford it. As much as I'd like K2s or Synthesis, the Performance Series is right where I need something great to be, and it is great, no doubt about it.

The first paradox, as we decry it, is that such a wonderful conception and beautifully executed product remains a blank, a question mark on the loudspeaker landscape, when truly it could take on anything in its market segment and kick it to the curb for Tuesday morning pick up. Is this indeed a marketing blunder, or is it something else? Does JBL even do its own marketing? I don't know, but it seems a paradox to do something this well then not talk about it.

The second paradox, which applies to JBLnsince1959, mikebake, Lancer, myself, and perhaps a few others, is that if JBL did do a good job of promoting and selling these, then none of us would enjoy the faux celebrity of having the indside track on these marvels. So, I think we kind of like that, even though we state that JBL should be doing a better job with this line. (Well, I'm only speaking for myself, of course. )

I bring this up because despite the criticism we might level at some aspects of the Performance Series story, there's no doubt that we admire the product, the people who make it, and the company that produced it.

And the is done.

[JBLnsince1959]

We are facing a paradox or two here.

We really do admire JBL and its capable workers, from the engineers and designers to the jig makers and tail offs (the folks who stack the boxes on the pallets). We're grateful for the commitment that Harman International has to serious speaker testing and development and for all the information it freely shares.

We're also grateful for the continuing support that JBL receives in a company with two other significant speaker lines and for the fact that it's still a full line top to bottom division that competes well in virtually all market segments. We're grateful that the Consumer and Pro groups provide such lengthy support for products that we hold dear and for the individuals who help us when questions and needs arise.

I personally am very gratified that JBL developed the Performance Series and gave me a line that has amazing bang for the buck. Its unique characteristics and innovative design set hit me squarely in the eyes, ears, mind, and heart, and I could even afford it. As much as I'd like K2s or Synthesis, the Performance Series is right where I need something great to be, and it is great, no doubt about it.

The first paradox, as we decry it, is that such a wonderful conception and beautifully executed product remains a blank, a question mark on the loudspeaker landscape, when truly it could take on anything in its market segment and kick it to the curb for Tuesday morning pick up. Is this indeed a marketing blunder, or is it something else? Does JBL even do its own marketing? I don't know, but it seems a paradox to do something this well then not talk about it.

The second paradox, which applies to JBLnsince1959, mikebake, Lancer, myself, and perhaps a few others, is that if JBL did do a good job of promoting and selling these, then none of us would enjoy the faux celebrity of having the indside track on these marvels. So, I think we kind of like that, even though we state that JBL should be doing a better job with this line. (Well, I'm only speaking for myself, of course. )

I bring this up because despite the criticism we might level at some aspects of the Performance Series story, there's no doubt that we admire the product, the people who make it, and the company that produced it.

And the is done.

I agree completely( and what I said was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else)...and to be fair to the marketing people, NO ONE in a corp. as large as that lives in a vacuum..and many decisions are made at a higher level and they have to work within those decisions. Somewhere in the Corp. decisions were made that pissed off a lot of dealers ( from what I've heard..I could be wrong) and even if the salespeople were to really hit the streets, alot of dealers won't touch it..

It's Ok that JBL made deals with BB and other mass marketers with some low cost speakers as long as JBL would still create better speakers for the "higher-end" market that would ONLY go into those dealers. Personally I really like the S312's, they are some of the most bang-for- the-buck speakers I've heard and GT created some really fine speakers for the masses. I would no sooner sell my S312's than I would my PS Speakers. ( thinking of C.C.N those too just for grins )


But, really, there's not even a Brochure about the PS speakers( if there is it's not to be found). You would think that with speakers with so much going for them and the fact that they are so radical in design that a complete brochure discussing the technology and WHY it's so superior would be in order. ( make us drool, give us a reason to dream about these things, tease us, make me toss and turn in bed at night.. etc) Maybe I'm just an old-timer here and wish for the days when you could get a brochure and READ about all the design goodies and why they're so good or better than other cone speakers. Here's stuff I'll like to see discussed:

1. tit-domes VS cones - words and graphs etc.
2. Iso-Baffle - what the hell is that and what does it do, why is it better than other baffles
3. Wave-guide info - how about some pictures showing us polar graphs comparing the Eliptical Oblate Spheroidal wave guide to regular tweeters.
4. distortion graphs which compares "resonanes inherent in cones materials" to the the tit-domes.
5. Show me how ( and how much) the tit-domes "nearly pistonic motion eliminates uncontrollable flexing found in conventional cones".
6. show me the " ruler-flat frequency response well beyond the crossover point" and how it's superior to cones.

well there's more but you get point.... AND to be fair yes, on their web site they have a little technology page where a few things are mentioned ( one to two sentenes tho), but mostly is discussing the conventional speakers), NOTHING discussing the PS speakers in particular...

[JBLnsince1959]

I'm going to have to get to work... BUT I would just like to say once and for all......

These speakers are some of the most phenomenal sounding speakers I've EVER heard..BIG TIME...PEROID,... and I don't say this lightly. And when you consider the price ( even retail), I get speakless. I have even lost my desire for the K2 ( I've been saving)

I've heard alot in my years, And what really amazes me is that this sound is coming from a HT, modular design. I put on a CD last night that I hadn't heard in years ( misplaced it in the move), it's called Mystic Traveler..the journey by Chis Spheeris ( from the documentary TV series)......WOW, it was "hey hon..could you get me a pair of Depends.. this is sounding too good" type of thing...

There are only two issues that I have with the PS speakers:
1. the brackets
2. The mid-bass FOR MY EARS ( IMO) could be a little fuller, but then I'm use to the mid-bass by some big speakers so I'm jaded by them. However, with a little tweating I've got them right where I want them

time to work.......

[MJC]

yes, I agree with you completely, it's not something I would want to do half-ass or as a knee-jerk reaction. That would have to be though out completely.


And mostly it's from a matter of just keeping things simple. If I build the external crossovers and I know that they will always be stacked for stereo then theres' no need for me to pass the signal thru that stuff. Just Keep It Simple. ( also, I firmly believe that the less the signal passes thru the less chance for it being changed for the worst). Personally I find nothing wrong with the built-in amp, it's very good...

With all the new electronics that are now available, such as the HK AVR 635, or the Lexicon MC12v4 xovers in subs aren't really needed. The built-in xovers with filters, eq, etc the pre/pro or receiver does it all.

The sub1500s I'm using have no electronics at all. Just wire and huge speaker terminals. The 635 does the rest.

[Titanium Dome]

With all the new electronics that are now available, such as the HK AVR 635, or the Lexicon MC12v4 xovers in subs aren't really needed. The built-in xovers with filters, eq, etc the pre/pro or receiver does it all.

The sub1500s I'm using have no electronics at all. Just wire and huge speaker terminals. The 635 does the rest.

This is true and works well when the modules are separated. When you've got three (going on four) PS1400s, the cabling gets a little ridiculous. My FAP T1 only has one sub out, so it's "replicator time" with every addition.

At least my Citation 5.0 had stereo sub outs. Hmmm, maybe time to switch a component.

[MJC]

This is true and works well when the modules are separated. When you've got three (going on four) PS1400s, the cabling gets a little ridiculous. My FAP T1 only has one sub out, so it's "replicator time" with every addition.

At least my Citation 5.0 had stereo sub outs. Hmmm, maybe time to switch a component.

You don't have to have all the subs connected to the receiver. I'm using 5 subs. The three 12" subs are conected to speakers via cable. One to the center, and the other two to the SS.
Therefore, the center, SS are set to large, with the L/R mains, BS set to small.
With the sub set to on in the HK635 menu, any channel set to 'large' will play down to 40htz and xover to the big subs. All channels set to 'small' can have the xover set to what ever works best for them and xover to the big subs. Plus all LFE are sent to the 15" subs.

I was watching the movie "Core" last night, what a sound track.

BTW. I've never seen the optional P800 stands for sale @ the Harman online store.

FWIW. I had to jump all over a couple of clowns over at AVS last night, told them they don't know a f** thing about REAL JBLs and if they ever heard a set of 29 year old L212, 20 yo 250Ti or the current Performance Series, they would burn whatever speakers they had.

[JBLnsince1959]

With all the new electronics that are now available, such as the HK AVR 635, or the Lexicon MC12v4 xovers in subs aren't really needed. The built-in xovers with filters, eq, etc the pre/pro or receiver does it all.

True, but then I'm not doing HT or using AVR's, just stereo stuff, so the crossover's are going to be DIY passive. I've tried the 1400 and 800 stacked with active crossover and I didn't care for it( when I first got them, I've learned a lot since then). I'll try it again when I have the time.

Where I was talking about being careful was making sure the values were right for the crossover between the 1400 and 800 and for that I will need assistance from forum members as I'm brain-dead on electronics. I'm not sure I completely understand the circuits in the 1400

[qxlxp]

I'm going to have to get to work... BUT I would just like to say once and for all......

These speakers are some of the most phenomenal sounding speakers I've EVER heard..BIG TIME...PEROID,... and I don't say this lightly.

i don't recall... have you heard the lsr 32/6332's

[Mr. Widget]

FWIW. I had to jump all over a couple of clowns over at AVS last night, told them they don't know a f** thing about REAL JBLs and if they ever heard a set of 29 year old L212, 20 yo 250Ti or the current Performance Series, they would burn whatever speakers they had.

Too bad they went away quietly muttering to themselves... "He's just one of those JBL nuts."

Oh well... we know you are right. I guess that's all that matters.


Widget

[JBLnsince1959]

i don't recall... have you heard the lsr 32/6332's

I have listened to the lsr32's alot ( I'm looking for a pair also) and I really like them, but I have not heard the 6332's and I'm not sure what the difference is. I really like the LSR32's...

Now of course when I said the PS Speakers are "some of the most phenomenal sounding speakers I've EVER heard", I'm not impling that they are the BEST speakers I've heard ( there are "better" - for a whoooole lot more money), but when you factor everything in.... money, design, sound etc...they are incredible and phenomenal.

And like a lot of speakers you have to work with them a little ( the 4430 comes to mind, bi-polars, electrostatics... etc) and I think the sound has to grow on you also. I wasn't a big fan at first ( first month), but I am now....and like everything else in life it's a matter of individual taste.

I still have alot to do to get them "there" and in fact I'm just now ready to work with the speakers big time now that I have the room since selling my 4430's.

[Titanium Dome]

BTW. I've never seen the optional P800 stands for sale @ the Harman online store.

Me neither. I saw a picture once, though, in one of the press releases of both stands, for PT800 and PC600. Can't find it at the moment...

FWIW. I had to jump all over a couple of clowns over at AVS last night, told them they don't know a f** thing about REAL JBLs and if they ever heard a set of 29 year old L212, 20 yo 250Ti or the current Performance Series, they would burn whatever speakers they had.

This could be a full-time commitment. I finally gave up in all but the most onerous cases. I still chime in to encourage people who are considering JBLs, since there will be several naysayers jumping at once when someone asks, "Should I get the JBL E50 or E80?"

Gosh, when they start recommending their Ascends, Paradigms, Polks, etc., it's one thing, but when they put down JBL speakers they've never even heard--my "sh!t-hits-the-fan" alarm goes off. Grrrr-r-r!

The Northridge E Series is one serious, bang-for-the-buck line, and if it serves as an entry point into JBL ownership, then that's fine with me, because they can meet or beat anything in their market segment.

Of course, that's another thing that gets me going: some moron who'll say the JBLs are not as good as his Ascends, but the frickin' Ascends he's referring to cost 40% more.

[JBLnsince1959]

Of course, that's another thing that gets me going: some moron who'll say the JBLs are not as good as his Ascends, but the frickin' Ascends he's referring to cost 40% more.

the Ascends are speaker wanta-be's ( IMHO) .

Polk's are really good speakers, I like their sound

[JBLnsince1959]

the Ascends are speaker wanta-be's ( IMHO) .

Of course I'm only joking here. The ascends are very good speakers. If one was to compare them to the Northridge E Series, it would really be apples and oranges comparison. I haven't heard the new JBL mass produced series so I can't say.