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Thread: JBL Performance Series

  1. #1831
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Le14h3 delaminated

    For awhile now I've been wondering how the PT800's would sound if the LE14H3's were in a bigger enclosure. To satisfy my curiosity and see if it would be worth actually building (or having them built) new sub cabs, I decided to use my trusty 240ti's as ready made -tuned enclosures; nice that they were already sitting next to the stacks.

    I finally worked up the energy to explore this. I transplant the LE14H3's into the 240 cabs, and jump the speaker wires from the PS1400 into the bass port of the 240's.

    But, tragedy struck!!

    After 5 minutes of TRULY AWESOME sound I notice some extreme woofer movement on the right and taking a closer look I see the surround of my very new LE14H3 flapping in the wind...so to speak.

    After promptly shutting it down and examining the situation, I find that over half of the rubber surround has come completely off of the basket. Party Over!

    The next day, I check the surround again. Did I push the woofer too hard? None of the paint of the basket came off with the glue, the rubber surround is pristine and undamaged. But even more telling is that when GENTLY pulling on the surround that is still attached, it peels right off with a brittle crackling. Ive re-coned LE14H1's and I'm pretty sure that shouldn't happen! No problem with the other woofer either.



    First, I wanted to bring this to the forums attention because this might be a problem for others. The PS1400 has a "purdy ring" screwed down atop the LE14H3, with an edge that sits right atop the LE14H3's rubber surround. If I hadn't taken it off, I doubt I would have ever realized this problem. Could the glue have been broken and the woofer been leaking air before I removed it? It's possible...

    Second, has anyone had this happen with their LE14H3's? Has anyone dealt with JBL on an issue like this? I bought the PS1400's new earlier this year.

    Third, if I don't get any love from JBL, anyone know if the surround glue for the rubber surround is the same as for the foam one's? It was still playing when it shut down, but I am worried about VC damage, though I think it's probably fine; don't hear any rubbing. If they use the same glue for the spider maybe I should check it too...
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  2. #1832
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    That is bizarre. So far I'm happy to report no such occurrence.
    Out.

  3. #1833
    Senior Member rdgrimes's Avatar
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    If not the trim ring, what IS holding that surround down? Is there no gasket on there? Perhaps the trim ring is for more than just looks?

  4. #1834
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    That is bizarre. So far I'm happy to report no such occurrence.
    My life must be bizarre, things like this happen quite often it seems..


    Quote Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
    If not the trim ring, what IS holding that surround down? Is there no gasket on there? Perhaps the trim ring is for more than just looks?
    I have it on good authority that the ring does nothing. The ring only sits softly on the edge, it leaves no imprint on the rubber, but it may not need much pressure to provide a measure of reinforcement. Just as with the LE14H1, only the glue holds the surround in place.

    The LE14H1 has a plastic ring glued around the edge but it just hides the edge of the foam.

    It's always amazed me how narrow they made the edge of the surround of this driver. When it's done right though, they last for years of abuse.

  5. #1835
    Senior Member rdgrimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post

    The LE14H1 has a plastic ring glued around the edge but it just hides the edge of the foam.
    The LE10H uses the same ring, as do others. In spite of its appearance it does function as a gasket.

  6. #1836
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    My life must be bizarre, things like this happen quite often it seems..I have it on good authority that the ring does nothing. The ring only sits softly on the edge, it leaves no imprint on the rubber, but it may not need much pressure to provide a measure of reinforcement. Just as with the LE14H1, only the glue holds the surround in place..
    I've used the LE14H-3 with and without the trim ring numerous times, including months in the PT250 set up with no apparent ill effects. That reinforces the idea that the rings themselves are not needed. Besides, there's no ring on the 1400 Array's LE14H-3.

    As for the bizarreness of your life, I have no comment.
    Out.

  7. #1837
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    Second, has anyone had this happen with their LE14H3's?
    Yeah, it's happened on some 1200FE's and 1500AL's too. Damn rubber surrounds...

  8. #1838
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
    The LE10H uses the same ring, as do others. In spite of its appearance it does function as a gasket.
    Yeah, its possible it's like a second line of defense to keep the surround from leaking air or coming off during high excursions. If I lay the PS1400 on it's back, install the H3 into it, with the ring, making sure it's VC is not rubbing, would the ring hold down the edge sufficiently to play without observing the damage? I think it would. Even light pressure of a few psi over the circumference of the surround could be quite effective. If your PS1400/H3 had such an issue you may never know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    I've used the LE14H-3 with and without the trim ring numerous times, including months in the PT250 set up with no apparent ill effects. That reinforces the idea that the rings themselves are not needed. Besides, there's no ring on the 1400 Array's LE14H-3.

    As for the bizarreness of your life, I have no comment.
    Does a LE14H3 like in the Array come with that plastic ring like the one's used on the H1? I haven't seen one non-performance series yet.

    I'm just feeling a little riddled with problems this month. Doesn't matter if what I have is new or old, expensive or inexpensive, they all seem to be having issues. Fixing can be fun to a point but it can get very annoying.



    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Yeah, it's happened on some 1200FE's and 1500AL's too. Damn rubber surrounds...
    Ah, good! Im not alone! !! 4313B, not sure I can blame it on the rubber though, the glue adhered fine to it, it didn't stick to the basket though. The other H3 looks to have a bit of off-white glue showing around the edge, maybe they used something different on it. Once I did a recone and soon after the spider came off. Enough pressure had not been applied to the spider to adhere it to the basket (no pressure perhaps). That looks like this situation. Come to think of it, that's probably all it is, just lack of pressure to bond the glue to the basket, rather than a defective glue product or fault of the rubber. If so, that explains alot and there is alot less to worry about for everyone.

  9. #1839
    Senior Member rdgrimes's Avatar
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    I'll prophesize that the glue is only as good as the person using it. Assuming these drivers were assembled by hand.

    The H-3 rubber surround has a flange on its outer edge that should contact the flange of the basket, so it would have glue contacting both the back side and the outer edge of the surround and basket. So that rubber flange is doing the job that a gasket would.

  10. #1840
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    not sure I can blame it on the rubber though
    I blame everything on the surrounds, whether or not they are lans-a-loy requiring brake fluid, foam requiring a re-foam, cloth requiring a re-doping,


  11. #1841
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
    I'll prophesize that the glue is only as good as the person using it. Assuming these drivers were assembled by hand.

    The H-3 rubber surround has a flange on its outer edge that should contact the flange of the basket, so it would have glue contacting both the back side and the outer edge of the surround and basket. So that rubber flange is doing the job that a gasket would.
    That explains even more, no glue on the flange here... at all! Only a thin line on the bottom, not even as wide as the rubber in some places.

  12. #1842
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I blame everything on the surrounds, whether or not they are lans-a-loy requiring brake fluid, foam requiring a re-foam, cloth requiring a re-doping,

    Yep! Damn surrounds!

    I expected you to blame it on cheap foreign labor..

  13. #1843
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    I expected you to blame it on cheap foreign labor..
    Well, you could, but you'd be wrong. The PS1400s were built a decade ago in Northridge.

    Have you tried contacting JBL yet? I'm sure they will take care of you.


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  14. #1844
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Well, you could, but you'd be wrong. The PS1400s were built a decade ago in Northridge.

    Have you tried contacting JBL yet? I'm sure they will take care of you.


    Widget
    My New PS1400 was built a decade ago? So it's NOS?



    Worked got hectic but I'll call them on Monday.

  15. #1845
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    My New PS1400 was built a decade ago? So it's NOS?
    I guess it would depend on your definition of NOS... I doubt JBL considered them NOS, but they built a ton of this stuff and it never sold, so they finally blew it all out. The last time I checked they had a handful of PS1400s left and (2) B stock PT800s left in mismatched finishes.


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