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Thread: JBL Performance Series

  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
    The Oppo's DAC is not "24/96", it functions with content up to 24/192, however this has nothing to do with what you hear. You could be hearing small differences in levels or some DSP in the Outlaw that hasn't been accounted for. Player settings with respect to SPDIF output could also be relevant. Also good to note that using stereo analog inputs in most AVRs will result in the audio being put through A-D-A conversion regardless of use of the "pure" setting. I can't say if this is also true of the Outlaw, possibly not. But you'd want to use the multi-channel analog inputs to avoid this conversion.

    FWIW, the newer Oppo BDP-93 will match the BDP-83SE for analog quality, and the BDP-95 leaves it in the dust.
    You're right, it's listed as "32 bit." Other than that, since you weren't there, it's hard to respond to all the maybes and could bes in your precis, professor. Sometime when you're in LA you're welcome to have a firsthand experience. I'll even let you use the remote control and the SPL meter.
    In.

  2. #1622
    Senior Member rdgrimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    You're right, it's listed as "32 bit." Other than that, since you weren't there, it's hard to respond to all the maybes and could bes in your precis, professor. Sometime when you're in LA you're welcome to have a firsthand experience. I'll even let you use the remote control and the SPL meter.
    I don't need no stinking meter.

    I'll wager that the Outlaw has a superior analog board that would account for what you hear. The actual DAC chips have far less to do with it. To put it another way, the board is what makes it possible to hear the difference in DAC chips but all things being equal most people cant hear differences in DAC.

    Make sure that in the Oppo, the "LPCM Rate Limit" is set to 192k so that the DAC is receiving full-res audio from the decoder. This will also ensure that full res PCM is sent out over SPDIF.

    Most of what was developed for the 83SE was ported into the 93. The 95, comparatively speaking, is on steroids. You can sell that 83SE and pay for a 93 and more. But as demanding as you are, the 95 has your name written all over it.

  3. #1623
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
    I don't need no stinking meter.

    I'll wager that the Outlaw has a superior analog board that would account for what you hear. The actual DAC chips have far less to do with it. To put it another way, the board is what makes it possible to hear the difference in DAC chips but all things being equal most people cant hear differences in DAC.

    Make sure that in the Oppo, the "LPCM Rate Limit" is set to 192k so that the DAC is receiving full-res audio from the decoder. This will also ensure that full res PCM is sent out over SPDIF.

    Most of what was developed for the 83SE was ported into the 93. The 95, comparatively speaking, is on steroids. You can sell that 83SE and pay for a 93 and more. But as demanding as you are, the 95 has your name written all over it.
    I've already got the 93 downstairs in the Two Jims Theatre, and at this point I've got four flippin' Oppo players of various vintages. I'm probably just going to go the separate DAC or DAC/pre route next and use one of those Oppos as a transport only.
    In.

  4. #1624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    My (our) expectation was that the Oppo with its highly regarded DACs and analog stereo upgrades would be the better performer, especially given the somewhat long-in-the-tooth aspect of the Outlaw 990. Yet the older DACs were clearly more listenable.
    I guess you didn't read my review of the BDP83 SE on this forum... "highly regarded" I thought it was noticeably better than the standard 83, but only slightly.

    As for the analog by-pass etc., I haven't heard any Outlaw gear, but of the dozens of AVRs and Pre-pros I have heard, not one had an analog by-pass or "pure audio" or whatever that ever really impressed me. Isn't your K2 system a dedicated two channel set up? Those speakers deserve a real 2 channel preamp.

    Quote Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
    I'll wager that the Outlaw has a superior analog board that would account for what you hear. The actual DAC chips have far less to do with it. To put it another way, the board is what makes it possible to hear the difference in DAC chips but all things being equal most people cant hear differences in DAC.
    Absolutely! But it is difficult to sell a circuit design... people love to buy numbers and flashy new names for the latest whiz bang chip set.

    I agree with the points you made about possible settings issues or DSPs that might still be lurking in the Outlaw's circuit... "Professor" I would also suggest using a coax over optical. I have heard real improvements in going with S/PDIF over Toslink.


    Widget

  5. #1625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    I'm probably just going to go the separate DAC or DAC/pre route next and use one of those Oppos as a transport only.
    That's exactly what I would do. The K2s and ATIs deserve better. Check out a Bryston DAC or better yet the Berkeley Audio Design DAC. Any of your Oppos via S/PIDF into a great DAC and a real analog preamp will be a solid upgrade.


    Widget

  6. #1626
    Senior Member rdgrimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I guess you didn't read my review of the BDP83 SE on this forum... "highly regarded" I thought it was noticeably better than the standard 83, but only slightly.
    BDP-83SE analog board:
    Name:  Blu-ray-BDP-83SE_AudioBoard_hr.jpg
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    BDP-95 analog board:
    Name:  BDP-95-audioboard-hr.jpg
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  7. #1627
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    All of which has nothing to do with JBL Performance Series speakers. (I was late to the party and missed the Oppo/Outlaw comparo)
    It's uh... uh... it's down there somewhere, let me take another look...

  8. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I guess you didn't read my review of the BDP83 SE on this forum... "highly regarded" I thought it was noticeably better than the standard 83, but only slightly.

    As for the analog by-pass etc., I haven't heard any Outlaw gear, but of the dozens of AVRs and Pre-pros I have heard, not one had an analog by-pass or "pure audio" or whatever that ever really impressed me. Isn't your K2 system a dedicated two channel set up? Those speakers deserve a real 2 channel preamp.

    Absolutely! But it is difficult to sell a circuit design... people love to buy numbers and flashy new names for the latest whiz bang chip set.

    I agree with the points you made about possible settings issues or DSPs that might still be lurking in the Outlaw's circuit... "Professor" I would also suggest using a coax over optical. I have heard real improvements in going with S/PDIF over Toslink.


    Widget
    I agree with your comments regarding coax, but my optical cable has a pretty yellow neon casing!

    As for a "real two-channel amp," send me a couple on approval, and I'll let you know what I think.

    In a vain attempt to get this back on thread, the Citation 5.0 I'm using on the PT250 is a stellar analog two-channel pre. It and its 7.0 sibling were/are known for their analog qualities. Since the surround modes on them are outdated (except possibly 6 Axis) they make p-fine stereo preamps with clean, pure analog stages.

    Since the PT250 is a bastardized offspring of unholy intercourse, it's okay for it to have a such an unblessed stereo pre.
    In.

  9. #1629
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    All of which has nothing to do with JBL Performance Series speakers. (I was late to the party and missed the Oppo/Outlaw comparo)
    Performance Series? Oh, right!
    In.

  10. #1630
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    All of which has nothing to do with JBL Performance Series speakers. (I was late to the party and missed the Oppo/Outlaw comparo)
    Yeah, but even the Performance Series is pretty useless without a source and electronics.


    Widget

  11. #1631
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    BDP-83SE analog board:

    BDP-95 analog board:


    The one with the bigger board looks better
    Performance Series 5.1/1990s L1.L5.L7/L100A
    http://adsoftheworld.com/media/tv/ac...cuses_tube_amp

  12. #1632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Check out a Bryston DAC
    Nyet. Has a machined aluminum faceplate. ;-)

  13. #1633
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    A nice thing... the "PT250" is already (IMO) at the level where comparing things like sources and front ends is interesting. This, in a room that most would think would present a few...
    challenges ... a topic that came up at lunch, including a replay of some Toole-ish thinking
    about room design and accuracy in replay, vs. what the sampled populous responds to as being an enjoyable listening experience.

    For some reason, the kludgey combination of MacOSX, Parallels, Windows7, London Architect, USB-serial converter, BSS-366 didn't want to play in Peoria this time...
    Next time, for sure

    We had a good (too brief) time anyway (as has been mentioned)... Thanks Doug.
    It's uh... uh... it's down there somewhere, let me take another look...

  14. #1634
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    I’m having a problem figuring out how I’m going to bass manage my performance system. I have 4-PT800s, 1-PC600, 2-PS1400s, 4-HTPS400s. I’m planning on running the fronts as PS/PT towers using the internal PS crossover. I’m using a Yamaha RX-V3800 as a Pre-Pro (I have separate power amps). I want to run the front towers as small and cross over to the HTPS400s at 40-Hz and the center & surrounds as small crossed over at 80-Hz. The problem is that the Yamaha won’t let me do that. There is only one crossover setting for all speakers set to small. I have a Velodyne SMS-1 that I could run the front signal through but it has a fixed crossover at 80-Hz. Would it cause a problem to run the fronts as large, the center & surrounds as small and crossover to the HTPS400s at 80-Hz? Any other options you can think of? I've exhausted my HT budget and have to make this work until I can afford a dedicated Pre-Pro.

  15. #1635
    Senior Member rdgrimes's Avatar
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    I run the front stacks as large, plus I feed them the LFE signal too. But with 4x HTPS400 you don't really need the PS1400 for sub duty. I think you'll be very happy with the simple 80Hz crossover and fronts as large.

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