JBL Performance Series

[JBLnsince1959]

I have both the 908Ti and the 112/2108. Pretty much everything about the 908Ti is technically better. No, it is not built to the same brickhouse specs as the 112/2108. Side by side comparison? I won't be selling my 112/2108's. They're simply too powerful to let go of. I might be willing to sell my pair of 908Ti's. I haven't decided yet. They are possibly just too cool to let go of.

80 Hz. I don't really know quite how to put this without opening up a can of worms. I'll just say that the 908Ti can be used like the 112/2108 was - sealed box - run full range if desired.

The 130 Hz crossover point is the best choice for the stacked array as designed. Nothing spooky or secret about it. Use whatever crossover frequency you find works best for you in your environment and your configuration. It's that simple. For instance, I doubt 130 Hz would be best for something like PT800's wall mounted away from the PS1400 subs.

Thanks for the info.

[Titanium Dome]

I'm not ready to say much at this point in the Great Wire Swapping Experiment (GWSE) of 2005, other than this:

Changing the connector bars on the stacked PT800s to speaker wire resulted in an obvious sound shift. The stacked PT800s now sound more like the four other, non-stacked PT800s and the PC600.

Not only is this evident from a subjective standpoint, but a simple sound test using pink noise demonstrates a shift on the AS1000 comparator/analyzer.

Even though I had the connectors securely attached and the nuts turned very tight, obviously the connection or the conductor (or both) wasn't the best. It sure looked better than those wires, though.

This GWSE is causing another kind of disturbance in the house, however, so I'm going to have to slow it down a bit. Why can't I find a woman who thinks playing tone bursts repeatedly and spreading equipment all over the place while crawling around changing wires is great fun? :dont-know

[DMMD]

This GWSE is causing another kind of disturbance in the house, however, so I'm going to have to slow it down a bit. Why can't I find a woman who thinks playing tone bursts repeatedly and spreading equipment all over the place while crawling around changing wires is great fun? :dont-know

How many forum members have we lost when something was inadvertantly dropped on their heads while buried "under there" or lodged "behind there."

Don't become another statistic.

[JBLnsince1959]

I'm not ready to say much at this point in the Great Wire Swapping Experiment (GWSE) of 2005, other than this:

Changing the connector bars on the stacked PT800s to speaker wire resulted in an obvious sound shift. The stacked PT800s now sound more like the four other, non-stacked PT800s and the PC600.

exactly as it should!!! yes, yes....

Not only is this evident from a subjective standpoint, but a simple sound test using pink noise demonstrates a shift on the AS1000 comparator/analyzer.

Good, then I'm not deaf , how did it shift? need details please...

Even though I had the connectors securely attached and the nuts turned very tight, obviously the connection or the conductor (or both) wasn't the best. It sure looked better than those wires, though.

I'm not catching your drift here please forgive me, what are you saying exactly????? Again, need details...

This GWSE is causing another kind of disturbance in the house, however, so I'm going to have to slow it down a bit. Why can't I find a woman who thinks playing tone bursts repeatedly and spreading equipment all over the place while crawling around changing wires is great fun? :dont-know

Well... I get this drift - BIG TIME......By the way, that type of woman does not exist....not much you can do except to say..."I really like doing this even if you don't understand." " Say, it's been a long time since you had dinner with your friends, why don't you go out and have a Girls night out. I'll pay"

or someting equally bribing...

anyway, really good work. I'm not sure exactly where you are on a few points, but time will take care of that.

and then there's the subjective thing if you like it or not ( there's no right or wrong). I personally find the wires ( tho ugly) a much more musical sound. I'm still trying stuff.

One reason I almost didn't buy these is that I'm a firm believer in the more you put between the amp and cone the more the signal is changed ( for the worst). Normally, there is only one set of binding posts ( the ones on the speakers) before the signal reaches the cone. In the 800 there's three. In my testing the most influential "change" to the signal ( not counting crossovers ) are the binding posts because the signal has to "jump" from one metal to another( connector gels work pretty good but haven't used it yet on these). It would also be an interesting test to compare a pt800 docked ( and sub off) with a pt800 surround.

I tried using my active crossover but I didn't like the sound. 24db octave crossovers ( and particularly active ones) produce a "harder" sound ( OK, for PA stuff or outdoors) and that's exactly what I don't want with the PT800, too much thinness and hardness. I haven't tried a 12db crossover ( much better for music IMHO) I'll have to dig one up.

well, time for dinner.

thanks for the testing Dome . I would like more details when you have the time.

[JBLnsince1959]

This GWSE is causing another kind of disturbance in the house, however, so I'm going to have to slow it down a bit :dont-know

hmmmmmm....... I sense a distrubance in the force ..... Let go Dome....trust your feelings... trust the force....

[JBLnsince1959]

.

Even though I had the connectors securely attached and the nuts turned very tight, obviously the connection or the conductor (or both) wasn't the best. It sure looked better than those wires, though.

Ok, I think I've got what you're implying. Yeah, the connections are tight and I doubt if the connection itself caused much of the problem. . I looked at it and it's like a tight spade ( and spades are fairly good connectors) so my gut feeling with this is, it's the metal content of the connector itself that causing most of this. It's most likely both but I'll bet 95% or better is the connector. Every metal, alloy, size, and geometric shape will affect the signal in some way. Too much to discuss right now.

However, I agree with you.....more investigation is needed.

take care

[JBLnsince1959]

Ok, I made an error since I got the PS series. A few nights before I got them I hooked up some silver interconnects from the CD to the preamp. Now, silver interconnects are Ok, but they knock out a lot of bass, midbass and lower mid-range information. I had used them to test something and then forgot they were hooked up.

Bottomline, I remembered this last night and used some Kimber copper interconnects instead. WOW, it's all there now, the full funamentials, the rich lower harmonics in the midbass and midrange. Wonderful sound........ with the correct interconnects and by replacing the JBL connectors between the 1400 and 800 and using wire, the sound has opened up and is rich sounding not "thin" at all anymore. I'm in heaven. GREAT sound - finally.... tried Ellington at NewPort again.. It's all there so clear yet so full....

Ok, now I'm firing on ALL 8 cylinders... time to test and see what these babies can really do....

[MJC]

Originally Posted by Giskard
I have both the 908Ti and the 112/2108. Pretty much everything about the 908Ti is technically better. No, it is not built to the same brickhouse specs as the 112/2108. Side by side comparison? I won't be selling my 112/2108's. They're simply too powerful to let go of. I might be willing to sell my pair of 908Ti's. I haven't decided yet. They are possibly just too cool to let go of.

80 Hz. I don't really know quite how to put this without opening up a can of worms. I'll just say that the 908Ti can be used like the 112/2108 was - sealed box - run full range if desired.

The 130 Hz crossover point is the best choice for the stacked array as designed. Nothing spooky or secret about it. Use whatever crossover frequency you find works best for you in your environment and your configuration. It's that simple. For instance, I doubt 130 Hz would be best for something like PT800's wall mounted away from the PS1400 subs.



What are you considering full range? 40htz or 20 htz. And what will a 112A actually play down to?
I ask only because my HK635 sets the xover to 40htz when the speaker setting is set to "large". Thus in my setup, the 3 channels that I have 12" subs connected to the L212s, as the system was designed, are set to "large" and crosses to the main subs @ 40htz.

[MJC]

In nearby Torrance, CA there's a Magnolia on Pacific Coast Highway, then about 2 miles west on PCH is a BB with a Magnolia corner in it. When I took the PT800s (two) into the Magnolia to pit them against the Sonus Faber Cremona and the MartinLogan Ascent, the resulting chaos ended in a discussion of BB intending to carry some higher JBL stuff in the Magnolia section of their stores. The floor manager was adamant that there had been some training material about the Performance Series and the sales guy claimed to recognize the PT800s when I brought them in the door.

I thought there might be some truth to this, as Magnolia associates would have the same access to JBL that regular BB folks do, at least since the acquisition.

Anyway, I sucked in my pride and visited BB to check out the Magnolia corner, and no one there knew a thing about the Performance Series, or anything else for tht matter. They seemed like typical BB hacks in nicer shirts.

I don't know what the dealer situation is like in CA, but the comments I've gotten from dealers(besides BB) around here, Reno and Carson City, is that they don't want anything to do with JBL or Harman, in general. There is a dealer in CC where I bought my HDTV, that sold Infinity Speakers a few years ago, along with M&K. And now just M&K. I told him "I wouldn't take M&K for free" and he told me "I won't ever sell any Harman product again".
But I'd like to see the PS in Magnolia, being BB is going to put a Mag in the local BB, in addition to the one that is already in Reno.

Thirty year ago JBLs were never sold at a discount, unless you bought the store's floor models, as my first L212 were.
Then JBLs started showing up in places like Circuit City, Monkey Wards, Sears and finally, in BB. And you know those big chains can sell for less than an independent HT store can. So the dealers say "screw you JBL, you'll just undercut me with some place else".

[4313B]

What are you considering full range? 40htz or 20 htz. And what will a 112A actually play down to?
I ask only because my HK635 sets the xover to 40htz when the speaker setting is set to "large". Thus in my setup, the 3 channels that I have 12" subs connected to the L212s, as the system was designed, are set to "large" and crosses to the main subs @ 40htz

Full range in this instance is no passive or active high pass filter, just the attenuation of the sealed box. The acoustical crossover of the L212 was something like 70 Hz with both transducers electrically down by something like 9 dB at that point. I've run that low for a sub before. I don't think 40 Hz is too low.

the comments I've gotten from dealers(besides BB) around here, Reno and Carson City, is that they don't want anything to do with JBL or Harman, in general.

Yeah... I've heard that alot...

[MJC]

Yeah... I've heard that alot...

When JBL has systems like the PS and the K2 its really a shame that they have cut their own throats with their dealers, former or present.
But like I said in another post, I would really like to see the Magnolia corner of BB to start carrying the PS. If for no other reason than to show the general public how good JBL really is.

I just realized the under your screen name it sez "former member"?

[johnaec]

I would really like to see the Magnolia corner of BB to start carrying the PS. If for no other reason than to show the general public how good JBL really is.

Up here in NorCal there's a big Magnolia's store that isn't in a Best Buy - it's a huge store all to itself. They could really use some JBL's...

John

[MJC]

Up here in NorCal there's a big Magnolia's store that isn't in a Best Buy - it's a huge store all to itself. They could really use some JBL's...

John

In the Reno Mag corner they have a room that has VA Beethoveen speakers, and despite I don't REALLY need any more speakers, I almost pulled out my credit card to buy them.
Should would like to see either the PS or the K2 in the same room to do a side-by-side comparasion.

[Titanium Dome]

Friday I visted the Magnolia corner at the Torrance BB and was sorely disappointed.



Essentially there were three show rooms, a center room/cashier desk, and a lame foyer. The emphasis was on plasma/lcd TVs, mid-fi components, and mid- to low-fi speakers.

One room was virtually all video displays, one was displays and small speakers, and one was a single display with the so-called full-size speakers. Some of the prices were ridiculous for what was offered.

I felt that the JBL Performance Series would be a great value compared to most of the product there, and it would definitely kick the ass of everything in there. In fact, I'm not sure how they could sell any of the other gear (except maybe the MartinLogan electrostats they had) in a comparison of sound. Of course we know many people buy on looks first, sound second. Some of the other speakers are pretty.

The LE14H-3 is a better LF transducer than anything else in the Mag corner, including the 10" and 12" subs they sell, and the only thing close to the Ti HF is the electrostatic ML.

All in all, it was a very dispappointing visit and shows what BB will do to the Magnolia image by this insertion into BB stores.

[Titanium Dome]

I'll see if I can find that guy's business card. The story's no good without the associate's name. I just remember that the name was apropos.

I loaded two PT800s, wrapped in soft moving pads, in the trunk of the Maserati (yes, to look like I was all that ) and drove over to the full-size Magnolia on PCH in Torrance. With one carefully tucked and camo'ed under each arm, I went inside and looked for the nearest "sales advisor." Up comes Skip, who recognized me from visits to audition the Sonus Faber Cremonas and MartinLogan Ascents, which he had gamely put through their paces for me.

I asked, based on prior visits, if we could do side-by-side comparisons of the JBL Performance PT800s, the SFs and the MLs. He seemed less eager than before. Had to talk to the manager. Just a minute. This might not be a good time. Should have called first. Some of the equipment wasn't set up.

So, out comes the manager. I want to do what? Highly unusual. No one has ever requested this before. Where did I get the speakers? Magnolia is not a testing lab. It's unfair to bring in an outside speaker that they haven't set up and "calibrated" prior to an audition.

Since no other customers are in the store (it's early afternoon on a week day), other sales advisors drift over like gang members defending their turf. JBL? Really? You're serious? ANYthing in the store will beat a JBL speaker. Waste of time, really.

(cont'd)