Should I grab these?

[hjames]

These were bought new in Germany and have traveled all over the world.
Just moved from Hawaii to NC.
Attachment 55202
They look good in my Living room!

Wowow!
XPL160s, stands, manuals boxes , and the grills look clean!!

S C O R E!!

[gferrell]

They are in better shape than I was expecting. All the drivers look good. Very detailed sound. More so than the L7's. Not quite as much at the bottom end though but that would be expected. There are some scratches and nicks. The grills have some picks and a couple of small holes but nothing major for 20 year old speakers.

[audiomagnate]

That looks like a lot of speaker for $100 a pop. Nice score. I can't believe they have the boxes.

[gferrell]

So which is left and which is right? Manual says "The XPL 160 is supplied in mirror image pairs. In general the systems should be placed so that the drivers are located at the outer edge of the stereo pair. If the left and right systems are unusually far apart, reversing the systems may provide better center fill." So how much is unusually far apart. Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

[rdgrimes]

So which is left and which is right? Manual says "The XPL 160 is supplied in mirror image pairs. In general the systems should be placed so that the drivers are located at the outer edge of the stereo pair. If the left and right systems are unusually far apart, reversing the systems may provide better center fill." So how much is unusually far apart. Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

The old reliable triangle is your best bet. If the speakers create an equilateral triangle with your listening position, then placement is optimal. Narrower than that, tweeters outside, wider than that, tweeters inside. The difference is minor.

[gferrell]

Great answer!

Thanks RD

[Titanium Dome]

If you look at your L7s, when the LE120H-1 drivers are facing inward, the offset mid and hi drivers are near the left side of the right speaker baffle and near the right side of the left speaker baffle. IOW, they're on the inside. This is the "normal" and recommended set up. Of course, it's possible to switch the speakers and have the drivers on the outside, which also has the woofers firing out in opposite directions. As you know, some people set them up this second way for a number of reasons and even say there's no difference, or the difference is minimal, or maybe it's even an improvement. I'd disagree, but I think it's fine for people to do what they want with their own speakers. I certainly do, and it's not always "right."

The XPLs are easier to swap R to L or L to R because the woofers face front and that dynamic doesn't change. Nonetheless, having the drivers on the outside is recommended in the JBL manual, with the inside position given as an option as RD says. It's an interesting anomaly that JBL has two different intents in nearly contemporaneous speakers. Of course the time alignment intended by the baffle designs is interesting as well.

We don't pay too much attention to this, but the offset of a driver from the centerline of the baffle does have an impact on its performance. With the L7s it's harder to hear because the change in LF performance is far more pronounced when swapping speakers from one place to another. With the XPLs, it's easier to perceive since the LF stays the same. Even with my bad ear, it's easy to hear the difference, because it's not really in the highest frequencies.

Here's a Kiwi who went all out and even built a jig to test this phenomena before he built a speaker. It's not hard core science; it's DIY science, so no one needs to make obvious know-it-all comments like "Didi he use a calibrated mic?" "He should have done this outside or in an anechoic chamber," etc. I'm not trying to open up a methodological debate.

http://www.gadgets.co.nz/mjv/loudspeakers/exp01.shtml

The most interesting thing to me is that the greatest differences were noted between 200 and 2000 Hz, which is in the sweet spot of my hearing for the most part

[gferrell]

TD,
You have owned and listened to both the L7's and the XPL 160's. How would you compare the 2. The more I listen to the XPL's the more appealing the sound. I noticed right off they were more accurate sounding. I do not have listening room for both of them at this time.

[Titanium Dome]

I have to say, I love, love, love the 093Ti/046Ti combo on the XPLs. In the world of Ti direct radiators, they're heavenly. It's just a shame that they never got mated to drivers that I would have preferred. (Like JBL cared or cares about what I think. )

The three-way XPL160 (I have gloss white ones I got for a couple hundred bucks, too.) may be the best set IF mated with a really good sub and crossed over fairly high to allow the 10" 127H-1 woofer to operate in a narrower frequency midbass range. IMO, it's a better midbass driver than the 6.5" driver in the XPL200, and if it's freed from LF duty by a compelling sub, it really shines. I've been using a pair of LE120H-1 subs with them, and it's a pretty sharp set, but my plan is to try a LE14H-1 combo so it'll be a 14/10 set.

Even with the 12" drivers, I like the bottom end better than the XPL200, at least before actively bi-amping them. I just prefer the LE120H-1 to the 2214H used in the XPLs, and of course the L7 has my preferred 12 incher in it, along with a very nice 8" midbass driver. Comparing L7s to XPL200s, I like the bottom two drivers in the L7 and the top two in the XPL200.

Since you've got the XPL160, if you can find a good sub/midbass balance with the 10 incher, I think it will please you more than the L7s will.

[Slare]

I'm really jealous of this deal. The L5/L7 series and then going into the XPL series were the showroom speakers at my local hi-fi shop around my high school years when I could barely scrape enough together to buy the smallest LX bookshelves. I've had the pleasure of owning all the L's I care about but they had to go to fund the P series. The XPL's have somehow managed to dodge me for all these years, except for a little pair of XPL 90's which don't have that mission critical midrange driver.

If a pair of 160's came up around me at this price I would take off work to go get them, and put them in my kitchen if I had to. They are one of the few speakers I would buy just to have until the day I have more room to set them up properly. However living where I do, I know if they do ever come up, it's pretty unlikely they'll be as nice as this set looks. Kudos.

Be nice to that midrange. Not a lot of them out there.

[Regis]

I have to say, I love, love, love the 093Ti/046Ti combo on the XPLs. In the world of Ti direct radiators, they're heavenly. It's just a shame that they never got mated to drivers that I would have preferred. (Like JBL cared or cares about what I think. )

The three-way XPL160 (I have gloss white ones I got for a couple hundred bucks, too.) may be the best set IF mated with a really good sub and crossed over fairly high to allow the 10" 127H-1 woofer to operate in a narrower frequency midbass range. IMO, it's a better midbass driver than the 6.5" driver in the XPL200, and if it's freed from LF duty by a compelling sub, it really shines. I've been using a pair of LE120H-1 subs with them, and it's a pretty sharp set, but my plan is to try a LE14H-1 combo so it'll be a 14/10 set.

Even with the 12" drivers, I like the bottom end better than the XPL200, at least before actively bi-amping them. I just prefer the LE120H-1 to the 2214H used in the XPLs, and of course the L7 has my preferred 12 incher in it, along with a very nice 8" midbass driver. Comparing L7s to XPL200s, I like the bottom two drivers in the L7 and the top two in the XPL200.

Since you've got the XPL160, if you can find a good sub/midbass balance with the 10 incher, I think it will please you more than the L7s will.

I fully agree and that's why I'd rather have a pair of 160's, vs the 200's. When I ran the XPL-200's my brother has, against the 4315's, side-by-side, the difference in the midbass was very obvious. You have the right idea and running the 127H as a midbass is exactly the thing to do, then as, you've done, mate it up to a set of great subs, crossovered just right and you have a superb set of speakers!

[gferrell]

You guys make me feel very fortunate. I may have never bought any of my speakers without finding this site. The more I listen to these the more I like them.



Now for a sub. I do have a 2235 in a home made box in the room connected to the LFE. But is that really not the same as a good sub with a crossover? Are you suggesting an active crossover? I am still learning here. I find the 2235 is a music sub and not a movie noise maker/shaker (I used to have a Velodyne for that and gave it to my daughter). I am sure you guys will chime in and explain. So I should start looking for a pair of LE14H-1 ideally. TD you have cost me enough already along with giving me much enjoyment. What kind of box for the LE14H-1? I may not have the room. Then would I stack the XPL's on top? And where would I find a couple of LE14H-1?

[Slare]

You guys make me feel very fortunate. I may have never bought any of my speakers without finding this site. The more I listen to these the more I like them.



Now for a sub. I do have a 2235 in a home made box in the room connected to the LFE. But is that really not the same as a good sub with a crossover? Are you suggesting an active crossover? I am still learning here. I find the 2235 is a music sub and not a movie noise maker/shaker (I used to have a Velodyne for that and gave it to my daughter). I am sure you guys will chime in and explain. So I should start looking for a pair of LE14H-1 ideally. TD you have cost me enough already along with giving me much enjoyment. What kind of box for the LE14H-1? I may not have the room. Then would I stack the XPL's on top? And where would I find a couple of LE14H-1?

It depends a lot of what you are using for your source, and what type of music you listen to. I think the general idea is to try and roll off the XPL's so that somewhere around 60Hz and lower is handled by a sub, an approach I would agree with if you have a big room, listen to bass heavy music loudly, or want to use the XPLs for home theater duty. If you just listen to classic rock or similar the XPL's are just fine as is.

Most modern AVR's or home theater pre's will manage the crossover work for you, and a box with Audyssey or Audyssey XT will do some work to help with calibrating the sub to your room and listening position.

Far as sub selection goes, a pair of LE14 based subs like the PS1400 would be spot on for most any music, but they are not really designed for the ultra low frequency stuff in electronic music and home theater tracks. You are also talking pretty big money compared to used L7's or those XPL's. A pair of used PS1400's would normally run around $600-800 at min.

In the end think the 2235 in a properly designed box powered by a standalone amplifier or plate amplifier could get you pretty good results without getting your budget all whacked up. Box tuned to 25-30Hz, with processing from your AVR or some other box to handle the crossover and calibration work... an AVR with Audyssey or Audyssey XT being the most affordable means to get there should give pretty nice results.

Imho the L7's could benefit as well, though with a lower cut off than the XPL160's.

[Regis]

With my 4315's, I ran a pair of Velodyne HGS-12's and it really worked well! You can adjust the Velo's for both volume and crossover point to get it just right. The HGS's were very, very accurate and musical. You couldn't tell where the 4315's ended and where the Velodynes began, it was seamless. Plus, they're self powered and run on their own. As with any sub mated with a set of speakers, you'll find that having 'more bass than necessary' will smother the midrange and highs. A powerful set of subs improperly set up can dominate the sound from the speakers. It took many hours of listening to figure this out.

[gferrell]

Well I am a classic rock, jazz and classical kind of guy. Too old for the bass heavy new stuff. Hell I cant hear much below 40Hz or above 16Hz. I did run the Audyssey which helps but it always gets my sub and one of the surrounds distance wrong so I use the tape measure and adjust. I have an amp running the 2235. I think I will look out for a movie sub also just for the HT experience but we listen to music far more than we watch movies. Thanks for the advise on the Velodyne HGS-12's. I will keep a lookout for 1 or 2. Velodyne does make good subs. Thanks for the great suggestions. I am still learning thanks to this site. It would be nice to hear someones system who really knows what they are doing. That way I would know if I was missing something. Or at least know what to expect. So this is the best my living room has sounded and I have tried a lot of different things since I got back into this 5 years ago. I think the XPL's will sit in place of the L7's at least for now. So here is the last picture I will bore everyone with. You have to admit they do look better than the L7's.