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Thread: 076, 3105, 2410 and 2225 or e130 cabinet design

  1. #1
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    076, 3105, 2410 and 2225 or e130 cabinet design

    I'm new to the forum, so I hope this is an appropriate place for this.

    I'm a former musician and found some "odds and ends" in a couple boxes in my garage. The items include one 076, one 2403, two (still in the box) 3105 crossovers, two 2225's and two e130's. This stuff was boxed up 20 years ago and kept dry. Everything works. I'm trying to come up with a cabinet design that would use some of these components. I've looked at 4333 clones, but also checked the JBL enclosure guide found in this site's library for ideas. I'm good with woodworking and thought 2397 clones out of claro walnut would be a nice match to the 2410's. If I go with the e130's in a cabinet straight from the enclosure guide, I could put the 076/2403 in it and put the 2397/2410 horn on top. The e130 cabinet is tuned to 40hz at 3 cubic ft. The guide also has an enclosure for the 2225's, but it is also tuned to 40hz. Doesn't seem to be a gain on the low end.

    Of course I'll need crossovers for 800hz-1200hz. I was thinking of cloning some 3110/3110a's. With these crossovers and the other components, I should be able to get a fairly flat response from 40hz to over 20Khz.

    I'm just in need of a little input before putting a lot of time into cabinets. I'm happy to find this stuff, but its incomplete and raises some questions about design. I'm guessing that's why I put it all in the boxes to begin with.

    Here's a link to the 2397 design:
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ll=1#post48096

    JBl spec sheet for 2397 (measurements slightly different from above link)
    http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...2397/page2.jpg

    And here's the link to the Enclosure Guide with dimensions, tuning and other helpful information:
    http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/suppor...=219&doctype=3
    Last edited by GoldcountryJim; 03-16-2012 at 09:25 PM. Reason: Added Links

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    Need to know low frequency response of e130

    I'm trying to decide whether to go with the e130 or 2225 for low end. I can't find much on the response curve of the e130, so I'm hoping someone can help. I know it is a descendant of the D130 hifi speaker, with a slightly larger gap, 1.35 t magnet and enhanced voice coil structure (kapton?)

    Here's what I have dug up on the 2225:

    The response curve for the 2225 can be usable down to 33-35hz using a 5 cubic ft tuned port enclosure with a 25 square inch port. Here's the link to the specification: http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2225hj.pdf

    The JBL pro 4647 enclosure appears to match this claim, although it appears to be about 5 db down at that point. Here's the link: http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/4647.pdf

    There's a 5 cubic ft design in the kit plans in this site's library. This is a home use enclosure design, but I'm guessing the response would be similar to the 4647. http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/.../1970s-kit.htm Alternatively, I could just use the 4647 spec as a basis for the cabinet.

    Now, I need something for the e130 to compare. Does anyone have response information on the e130?

  3. #3
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    The E130 is an instrument speaker. It supposedly sounds fantastic in midrange, but will not give you lots of bass. I would use both 2225 (below 300 Hz) and E130 (above 300 Hz). The problem is filtering, at 300 Hz the filter will be very large and expensive. I would go active, and use the passive filter above. If you use E130 above 300, the box design for it is not critical.

    You will need to check the 2225. There is a piece of foam in the ventilation protecting the voice coil from bugs. The foam might have become bad, and could ruin the coil.

    If you got space go for jbl 4530 cabinet with 2225 and 4560 cabinet with E130.

    Best regards

    Mårten

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    Gotta' keep it smaller

    Thanks Marten,

    I like the idea of 4530 and 4560's, but its not practical in the available space. I had four 4560's with 2220's in them, back when I was a working musician. They put out great mids!

    Truth is, that I'm probably limited to choosing between the woofers. I think you are right about using the 2225's for low end. The E130's are great in the mids, which is why I was hoping to get more information on them. The spec has them at 50hz to 6000hz and 105db 1w 1m (@2Khz?). http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/eseries.pdf I should probably believe the spec and what you are saying. What was throwing me is an audio clip of an E130 used for bass, which puts it down to about 41hz.

    I'm torn between active and passive x-overs for the low/mid split. Passive is a cheaper entry point. That's why the 3110's were mentioned. I just need to locate a schematic and parts list.

    Appreciate the input.

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    If you can add a smaller midrange (2118?), keep the 2225. Maybe trade the E130?

    Otherwise keep the E130. You can EQ the bass, but not the midrange :-). E130 is very close to 2220, check the thiele-small parameters.

    Maybe trade both of them for a pair of E145? Very good midbass and midrange.

    There are more experienced members on the forum, but at least you got a response :-)

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    Still thinking about the E130's

    Thanks for the reply Marten.

    I checked then 2225's and they are in really good shape. Looks like they were reconed with original JBL parts just before going into storage.

    Using EQ on the bass is probably a good idea to extend the range (may draw some flack from purists for saying this). I don't plan to exceed 30 watts RMS, so the cones shouldn't get over-extended. Whether I could get away with this with just the E130. . . . X-max is pretty limited. Probably safe at this wattage.

    I found this clip on youtube of E130's and 2420's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHXVJ6B4qWM It's a poor demo song, as it doesn't have much low end, but kinda' looks good! The units are very directional too.

    Thanks again!

    Jim

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    Senior Member maxwedge's Avatar
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    I was going to say if you're going 3 way (w/UHF) then use the 225 and not the E130, but then you could use the E130 instead and add a mono sub for the bottom. That would be a killer set up!

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    2225 sub

    I was out a couple days and just got back. Yes! I was thinking the 2225's would make a great sub. I could build cabinets in stages, starting with the E130's and adding the sub later. I'm pretty sure this is the right direction. Actually, its the obvious answer I was missing.

    I'll need to clean the 2410's before installing. There seems to be some debris in/on the screen in the throat. They also have some superficial scratches in the paint. Does anyone know of a good matching grey spray paint?

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    If you build the sub with 2 isobaric mounted 2225, the size will be halved. WinISD Pro Alfa is useful for simulation.

    Just search the forum and you will find the proper JBL color codes, JBL color is one of them. Pantone 403 is the right color according to this thread. Have it mixed in a paint shop (bring the driver?) and apply with an airbrush.

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    Isobaric Option

    My wife likes the isobaric concept! She believes the living room is for family, not speakers. I'm reading up on isobaric cabinets and really appreciate you telling me about it. Also appreciate the information on the paint.

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    Here's the update on where things are at.

    1. I've been cleaning the drivers. The 2410's have a foam pad in the rear cover that deteriorated. When I opened the back covers, there were black particles all over. I did get this all cleaned up. I believe this is a damping material and will have to replace it. Anyone have suggestions on what to use?

    2. After playing with WinIDS for many hours, I've concluded that building a 5 cubic ft box tuned to 40 hz and using the 2225's will give the best results until I can build a sub. In fact, the program really confirmed that the 4647 enclosure is quite good. I am looking at changing the number of ports to either 1 or 2. Also, the 1/2 inch lip on the front will go. Cherry veneer with claro walnut accents/edges keep coming to mind! I've been looking for information on the internal bracing. Does anyone know where there's information on this?

    I really recommend that anyone building speakers play with WinIDS and, if you don't already have drivers, look at the response curve on 2221's, 2234, LE15.

    Once I have the bracing figured out, I'll post some drawings.

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    When playing around in WinISD, remember to check cone excursion. You can vary the power until you reach maximum cone excursion. Then you will have to check maximum air speed in vent at the maximum power. Keep velocity below 17 m/s, lower is of course better. With larger longer port you will decrease air velocity.

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    I've run numbers for two, four inch ports. WinIDS says they will be 5.37 inch depth. Vent mach came out to .04. This venting should leave room for different tuning options, in the event that I change drivers. Tuning to 35hz would only require 7.91 inch depth. I played with one port, but suspect getting a larger diameter tube might be difficult. Now I can work out the layout of the baffle, assuming there will be a brace in the center going to the back of the cabinet.

    I found a thread with some information on the bracing for the 4507 (same as the 4647). http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...oxes-for-2225H. I'm surprised that JBL didn't put more bracing in these cabinets. Probably wouldn't hurt anything if I add bracing.

    Off to the drawing board!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldcountryJim View Post
    I'm surprised that JBL didn't put more bracing in these cabinets. Probably wouldn't hurt anything if I add bracing.

    Off to the drawing board!
    I am sure it is about cost and weight. The more bracing the better. Use a stiff material for your bracing... MDF is not the best choice.


    Widget

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    Hi, I made a pair of S7 knock-off's back 40 years ago when I stopped playing in a band. The D130's I had from a dual showman with 175 potato-masher horns. JBl sent me nice CABINET DRAWINGS (2'x3'x1') and if I can find them I will scan them for you.

    They suggested lengths for the pair of 4 inch dia. ABS pipe. I believe they are each 4" deep. The only detail I couldn't do was recess the front loaded woofers so they were flush with the 15 ply Finland birch baffles. I thought that was overkill.

    I ended up adding 2405 tweeters with 3105 crossovers wired from the high outputs of the 1200 hz crossovers when I could afford it (after college). I remember mounting them 180 deg. out and having a stream of hf. sound 12" wide from the floor to the ceiling.

    yes, I would like subs (18") but at what loudness level would my little house and my old ears stand it. They now reside in my attic (pointing downwards) because they were deemed too large for the family room floor.

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