Titanium loves Alnico

[jimafm]

Don't worry. Been using the new diaphragms in old 2420s and 2440s for years.

[Mr. Widget]

jimafm was inspired by a comment on an ooooold thread to post this comment. I thought it deserved it's own thread since it was both interesting and Off Topic.

For years now, I and a bunch of others have been railing on the notion that aluminum diaphragms sound better than Ti. They are demonstrably better from a measurement and theoretical perspective, and magnesium and beryllium are each incrementally better still. That said, there are stalwart believers in Ti out there.

It is easy to suggest that the typical Lansing Heritage member who prefers Ti does so because he has never heard a new aluminum diaphragm before it's performance has degraded due to work hardening or some other unfortunate sign of use/abuse, but it may also be possible that Ti has a sound that just appeals to some.

Last January while at CES, I heard a speaker that used the 2446 and 2226 and it sounded pretty darned good. The designer was certainly more than just competent, and in discussing his speaker he told me that he has used aluminum and beryllium diaphragms and simple prefers the stock JBL Ti diaphragms. Here is a fellow who has tried all of them, certainly knows what he is doing, and has come to a very different conclusion that I have. I can only think that this is because some of us just prefer something about that Ti sound.


Widget

[louped garouv]

i think like most things audio, like you mention, it's a personal preference thing...

just like full range or multi way systems, tubes or solid state, perm. magnet or field coil, etc etc etc...



I like the sound (and admittedly limited functionality) of old, crude
(in some folk's estimations) "DJ style crossovers," but they are
not for everyone...

(if anyone is interested in reading about them, ScottyJ (RIP) had written a good
bit on the design: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post287449 )

just like the sound of hedlund style full range horns is not for everyone,
but i know someone near me that adores them....

is my take....

[pos]

Last January while at CES, I heard a speaker that used the 2446 and 2226 and it sounded pretty darned good. The designer was certainly more than just competent, and in discussing his speaker he told me that he has used aluminum and beryllium diaphragms and simple prefers the stock JBL Ti diaphragms.

OceanWay HR3?
http://oceanwayaudio.com/oceanway-mo...onitor-system/

The sealed subs look like Dayton ones (parts-express) !
So he uses a plain ol' ribbed Ti diaphragm? Not even a SL one?

Maybe it is also a matter of matting (voicing) a particular compression driver with the rest of the system.

Component description:

• High Frequency driver has an 19,000 gauss magnetic structure and titanium diaphragm with aluminum voice coil, 2 inch throat
• Mid Bass woofer is 15 inch and has an 11,000 gauss magnetic structure with an aluminum voice coil.
• Sub Bass woofers are twin 12 inch and have 11,000 gauss magnetic structures.

[4313B]

I can only think that this is because some of us just prefer something about that Ti sound.

It's pretty damn good when there isn't any aluminum, magnesium or beryllium around. This discussion was put to bed for good years ago. I know it can be a ton of fun to keep fighting the same old fight for those who can't move on and that's perfectly fine, we have to fill each day somehow.

I sure wish I had some Be diaphragms for my Tannoy DC's!

[SEAWOLF97]

Titanium loves Alnico
correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Alnico OUT by the time the Ti series came in ?

my only exposure to "better than Ti" HF's is a pair of Yammy's I have with Be HF's. they are VERY nice indeed. I think it is the same one from the NS-1000.

[Mr. Widget]

Titanium loves Alnico correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Alnico OUT by the time the Ti series came in ? +

I think that was his point... putting new Ti in old alnico drivers.

Personally, I'd rather put new Be in old alnico, but that is the point of this thread... many choices and many tastes.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

OceanWay HR3?
http://oceanwayaudio.com/oceanway-mo...onitor-system/

The sealed subs look like Dayton ones (parts-express) !
So he uses a plain ol' ribbed Ti diaphragm? Not even a SL one?

Maybe it is also a matter of matting (voicing) a particular compression driver with the rest of the system.

Yep, those are the beasts... they sounded much better than I thought the parts should. I have no idea which subs they use. I didn't ask.

One "trick" up the designer's sleeve, is that each pair is powered via an equalizer that is hand tuned by a skilled artisan.


Widget

[allen mueller]

OceanWay HR3?
http://oceanwayaudio.com/oceanway-mo...onitor-system/

The sealed subs look like Dayton ones (parts-express) !
So he uses a plain ol' ribbed Ti diaphragm? Not even a SL one?

Maybe it is also a matter of matting (voicing) a particular compression driver with the rest of the system.

You could be right, that wouldn't be the first time I've read that the Dayton subs were used in in a high priced studio monitor. Check these pics out.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/7294184-post1621.html

A few pages back there is a post where someone claims they are daytons. Weather or not its true who knows. They certainly look like them.

http://www.guzauski-swist.com/

Allen

[JBLAddict]

I think it was at McCormick Place in my hometown, where TiDome first heard the all Ti driven PS Series and knew it was "the sound he wanted."

That statement and others that followed in the thread espousing the merits of Ti always referenced, and I'm paraphrasing, it was a sound that his ears preferred compared to various other materials.

Now that I'm surrounded by 5.1 PS speakers, inspired by many listening sessions at his place, I understand the feeling. However, the 4338 and it's 435Al has left the biggest impression on me of any JBL I've ever heard. If I have one itch it's to acquire and 435Al/045Ti based system to satisfy that hunger

[4313B]

If I have one itch it's to acquire and 435Al/045Ti based system to satisfy that hunger

I'd sell you my pair of 1400 Array horns but unfortunately they have the better 435Be and 045Be bolted to them.

My 4338 clones also have the 435AL/045Ti replaced with the 476Be (not to mention the 1500Fe replaced with the 1500AL). At least the grilles are original 4338 grilles.

[JBLAddict]

I'd sell you my pair of 1400 Array horns but unfortunately they have the better 435Be and 045Be bolted to them.

My 4338 clones also have the 435AL/045Ti replaced with the 476Be (not to mention the 1500Fe replaced with the 1500AL). At least the grilles are original 4338 grilles.

truth be told, we all know grilles are what account for the differences between speakers anyway