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Thread: 4628B curve for Zilch

  1. #46
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Read this thread from the beginning

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...Cabaret-Series

    To sum it up these are PA boxes. If you like them as is great. The have good drivers that with different crossovers and crossover points can be made into a system more suitable for home use. Take a look at the crossover schematic for the 4628. It's minimal at best. I would not use a 2404 down to 3K becasue it will get harsh sounding. I wouldn't run a 2118 that close to it's upper breakdown region as another example for the same reason. The drivers will work that way but you can make a better sounding system by limiting how far up the 2118 goes and how low the 2404 runs.

    Rob

    http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Net...%20Network.pdf
    Thank you,Rob!
    In fact,i've read almost all the threads that about 46 series, some friends of mine have listened to my 4628B,They think it quite good and even can be compared with 4344.
    The only question is how to improve it?Maybe don't let 2118 goes so far up and 2404 so low down is a good ideal.

    Martin
    46 lover

  2. #47
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Read this thread from the beginning

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...Cabaret-Series

    To sum it up these are PA boxes. If you like them as is great. The have good drivers that with different crossovers and crossover points can be made into a system more suitable for home use. Take a look at the crossover schematic for the 4628. It's minimal at best. I would not use a 2404 down to 3K becasue it will get harsh sounding. I wouldn't run a 2118 that close to it's upper breakdown region as another example for the same reason. The drivers will work that way but you can make a better sounding system by limiting how far up the 2118 goes and how low the 2404 runs.

    Rob

    http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Net...%20Network.pdf
    The crossover points are 800hz and 3Khz.
    46 lover

  3. #48
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Read this thread from the beginning

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...Cabaret-Series

    To sum it up these are PA boxes. If you like them as is great. The have good drivers that with different crossovers and crossover points can be made into a system more suitable for home use. Take a look at the crossover schematic for the 4628. It's minimal at best. I would not use a 2404 down to 3K becasue it will get harsh sounding. I wouldn't run a 2118 that close to it's upper breakdown region as another example for the same reason. The drivers will work that way but you can make a better sounding system by limiting how far up the 2118 goes and how low the 2404 runs.

    Rob

    http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Net...%20Network.pdf
    But what's the proper crossover points for 2404 and 2118?
    Is 7K for 2404? 1k for 2118? then how to combine them(make them work together)?
    Thank you!
    Martin
    46 lover

  4. #49
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    put a compression driver and horn on top of your cabinet, and cross it between 1.5khz and 8khz!

  5. #50
    Unabashed Speakerholic cosmos's Avatar
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    How far up does E-145 go?

    My experience with 4628B has been limited. The first pair I found didn't even make it home with me.. I stopped at a local audio meet and another guy just had to have them.. My second pair were scavenged immediately for the E-145 drivers, which I really like the mid-bass from.

    About a week ago, I managed to pick up a third pair. I just set these set up in my workshop on top of 4842 Subwoofers ( twin 2245H). These seem to be a very appealing setup. However, I am really tempted to take this a step further by adding in a pair of 2441 or 2425 on a wood horn in lieu of the 2118.

    How high can we take the E-145 in this setup? By listening to it, it seems to be pretty competent to 1.5K, but I'd likely cross to the 2441 at about 800 but would like to go up to 1.2K to 1.5K for the 2425. The 2425 would have an advantage of likely being able to go on up without a tweeter.. Surely someone has tested the E145 for upper end extension.
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  6. #51
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    put a compression driver and horn on top of your cabinet, and cross it between 1.5khz and 8khz!
    I'v though of it already!
    I have some choises below:
    1.Changing the crossover of 2404 and 2118,cut off the sound upper the 800HZ of E145.
    2.Replacing the 2118 with 2123,then find the proper crossover points.
    3.Replacing the 2118 with 2426,using DD6600''s crossover.(66000:2405\2420\E145)
    4.Adding 4691 with 4628, uing E140 as mid-range driver,then the system will be consist of 2404\2426\2118(can be disconected)\E140\E145. what's the different between E140 and E145?can E140 be used in this way?
    my goal is to make my 4628B sound better through some easier method!
    Your opinion will be highly appreciated!
    Thank you
    Martin
    46 lover

  7. #52
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
    My experience with 4628B has been limited. The first pair I found didn't even make it home with me.. I stopped at a local audio meet and another guy just had to have them.. My second pair were scavenged immediately for the E-145 drivers, which I really like the mid-bass from.

    About a week ago, I managed to pick up a third pair. I just set these set up in my workshop on top of 4842 Subwoofers ( twin 2245H). These seem to be a very appealing setup. However, I am really tempted to take this a step further by adding in a pair of 2441 or 2425 on a wood horn in lieu of the 2118.

    How high can we take the E-145 in this setup? By listening to it, it seems to be pretty competent to 1.5K, but I'd likely cross to the 2441 at about 800 but would like to go up to 1.2K to 1.5K for the 2425. The 2425 would have an advantage of likely being able to go on up without a tweeter.. Surely someone has tested the E145 for upper end extension.
    It seems that E145 can go much higher than your expecting.all deponds on 2441 and 2425's optimum range.
    46 lover

  8. #53
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
    My experience with 4628B has been limited. The first pair I found didn't even make it home with me.. I stopped at a local audio meet and another guy just had to have them.. My second pair were scavenged immediately for the E-145 drivers, which I really like the mid-bass from.

    About a week ago, I managed to pick up a third pair. I just set these set up in my workshop on top of 4842 Subwoofers ( twin 2245H). These seem to be a very appealing setup. However, I am really tempted to take this a step further by adding in a pair of 2441 or 2425 on a wood horn in lieu of the 2118.

    How high can we take the E-145 in this setup? By listening to it, it seems to be pretty competent to 1.5K, but I'd likely cross to the 2441 at about 800 but would like to go up to 1.2K to 1.5K for the 2425. The 2425 would have an advantage of likely being able to go on up without a tweeter.. Surely someone has tested the E145 for upper end extension.
    can not upload pics again why?system no good?
    46 lover

  9. #54
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin_wu99 View Post
    3.Replacing the 2118 with 2426,using DD6600''s crossover.(66000:2405\2420\E145)
    That would be the DD55000 (everset 1)

  10. #55
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    That would be the DD55000 (everset 1)
    Yes,66000 is modern type.my writting fault.
    46 lover

  11. #56
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    That would be the DD55000 (everset 1)
    everset?should be everest!
    my English is poor,execuse me
    46 lover

  12. #57
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Are you ready to use something like a DCX2496 (or better) for the crossover?
    Also, are you ready to build new boxes?

    And do you feel that your 4628 have enough bass on their own to be used without the 4699 ? Using both in the same time is not ideal. Maybe just using one (or several) subwoofer would be better.

  13. #58
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    Are you ready to use something like a DCX2496 (or better) for the crossover?
    Also, are you ready to build new boxes?

    And do you feel that your 4628 have enough bass on their own to be used without the 4699 ? Using both in the same time is not ideal. Maybe just using one (or several) subwoofer would be better.
    I‘d like to have JBL m553 crossover.
    I don't plan to build new boxes.
    Yes,I think the 4628B lack of some low end.so i think two 15' bass drivers will make it better.my new plan is 4628+4691,using 3 way crossover,how do you think of the paln?
    thank you!
    46 lover

  14. #59
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    If I were you, I would only keep the 4628B and sell the 4699 and 4691 and other cabaret speakers you might have.
    The 4628B Is the only one that really has good component and can be converted to hifi use. I would use subwoofer(s) to assist under 80Hz (real subwoofers, not PA speakers from the cabaret serie)
    I would discard the current passive filter and go fully active. The M533 is a good unit but a digital crossover like a DCX2496, together with some measurement gears, would give you more possibilities.

    Then, you have to change something with the drivers if you want a really good sound, because neither the 2118H nor the 2404H-1 are really good at 3khz.

    You have 3 choices:

    1- remove the 2118H, close its opening, and put a big horn and compression driver on top of the cabinet. Crossovers could be something like 800Hz and 8khz. The horn could be something like a 2397 if you find one. You will need a big horn to reach 800Hz (the E145 is not that great higher than that)

    2- keep the 2118H, and put a small horn on top of the cabinet, with a higher crossover, like 1200Hz and 8khz. A 2307/2308 could do the job. But then you will have a 4 way (plus subwoofers!) and the crossover will be difficult to deal with

    3- remove the 2404H-1 (this is the -1 variant anyway: it does not go that high) and replace it by a small horn and compression driver that is able to go to 20khz. That would be the best option in my opinion. A JBL 2407 (or BMS 4540nd) and a the small PT waveguide from the JBL AC16 speaker (PT-B99HF-1). This is going to be a really inexpensive combo (the 2407 can be found on ebay US, and the horn can be had from JBL Pro and is something like 10$ each), and can sound very good. The crossover point with the 2118H would be around 2.5khz, and you would have to use the CD compensation function of the M553 (horn preemphasis)
    So in the end that would be: E145 up to around 400Hz, 2118H from 400Hz to 2.5khz, 2407 from 2.5khz up to 20khz with CD compensation. That can be done with the M553, fully active.

    Then you just have to add some subwoofers, preferably spread accross the room, and you will have a killer system.

  15. #60
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pos View Post
    If I were you, I would only keep the 4628B and sell the 4699 and 4691 and other cabaret speakers you might have.
    The 4628B Is the only one that really has good component and can be converted to hifi use. I would use subwoofer(s) to assist under 80Hz (real subwoofers, not PA speakers from the cabaret serie)
    I would discard the current passive filter and go fully active. The M533 is a good unit but a digital crossover like a DCX2496, together with some measurement gears, would give you more possibilities.

    Then, you have to change something with the drivers if you want a really good sound, because neither the 2118H nor the 2404H-1 are really good at 3khz.

    You have 3 choices:

    1- remove the 2118H, close its opening, and put a big horn and compression driver on top of the cabinet. Crossovers could be something like 800Hz and 8khz. The horn could be something like a 2397 if you find one. You will need a big horn to reach 800Hz (the E145 is not that great higher than that)

    2- keep the 2118H, and put a small horn on top of the cabinet, with a higher crossover, like 1200Hz and 8khz. A 2307/2308 could do the job. But then you will have a 4 way (plus subwoofers!) and the crossover will be difficult to deal with

    3- remove the 2404H-1 (this is the -1 variant anyway: it does not go that high) and replace it by a small horn and compression driver that is able to go to 20khz. That would be the best option in my opinion. A JBL 2407 (or BMS 4540nd) and a the small PT waveguide from the JBL AC16 speaker (PT-B99HF-1). This is going to be a really inexpensive combo (the 2407 can be found on ebay US, and the horn can be had from JBL Pro and is something like 10$ each), and can sound very good. The crossover point with the 2118H would be around 2.5khz, and you would have to use the CD compensation function of the M553 (horn preemphasis)
    So in the end that would be: E145 up to around 400Hz, 2118H from 400Hz to 2.5khz, 2407 from 2.5khz up to 20khz with CD compensation. That can be done with the M553, fully active.

    Then you just have to add some subwoofers, preferably spread accross the room, and you will have a killer system.
    Pos,thank you very much for your patience and detail suggestions:
    1.I'm looking for JBL DSC260 processor,is this suitable for my 4628B system?
    2.Can i replace the 2118 with 4691's 2426 and 2370(easy to get)?
    3.I like the 2404H and the E series so much that i will not diacard it.
    4.Which subwoofer is most suitable for my system?2245?2242?seems things becoming more complicated
    by the way,the 4628B's specifiction shows that the frequence range is 35hz-21.5hz
    (-10db)?
    46 lover

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