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Thread: 4628B curve for Zilch

  1. #31
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Zilch, pick up a pair of Tannoy DC12i's...
    I saw them yesterday at a trade event. Looks like a formidable little HT speaker. With it's pulp cone and cloth surround it has a real old school look. At $1700 ea. they would be great in a moderately high end home theater.

    Of course Zilch and many others here are equally into building the system rather than just buying a really good one.


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  2. #32
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Of course Zilch and many others here are equally into building the system rather than just buying a really good one.
    That's barely in English... but I guess you got my meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I kind of lost interest when JBL said that was the last of the 1500AL's and 476Be's...
    Yeah, I know what you mean.

    In a couple of weeks I'll be popping down to Northridge for some dealer event... it'll be interesting how they choose to show off all of those empty cubicles and unused factory floor space.


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  3. #33
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Still plenty for us bottom-feeders:

    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...215536&page=28

    Summary is here, but there's a bunch of stuff in-between, including data for 2452H-SL on PT-F95HF:

    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...93#post1667893

    I also snuck some H4338/2452H-SL data in on a different forum using a stock 800 Hz JBL Cinema Series crossover:

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post19284506

  4. #34
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    Still plenty for us bottom-feeders:
    I think Scotty showed us once again life is too short not to go for the gusto.

    Of course we should all make a point to have fun where ever we can find it.


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  5. #35
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    There is no dearth of gusto in what I do; your 414Zs are here:

    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...64#post1668864

  6. #36
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    I deleted my posts after reading the entire thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    Still plenty for us bottom-feeders:
    You guys just like to play with stuff and it appears to have no end game. There was a time when I couldn't get enough components to screw around with either. I definitely look forward to posts like John W's!

    As far as I know you aren't lawyers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    I also snuck some H4338/2452H-SL data in on a different forum using a stock JBL Cinema Series crossover:
    Neato. I don't feel like joining that forum to look at the pictures though.

    Some comments that jumped out at me:

    I don't know if he actually said so himself, but H4338 is purported to be second only to Everest II in sonic quality.

    The H4338 measures better than the H66000.

    What drivers are run on them matters in that, of course: this is the best I can do right now, but it could likely be improved with Be diaphragms.

    Yes, the drivers do matter. If the 3-inch driver doesn't work for you use the 4-inch instead. All those horns, H4338, H9800, H66000, H9900, H4365, 1400 Array, SAM1HF, 2344A are very nice. G.T. has mentioned numerous times that he prefers them vertical to horizontal.

    The 2452H-SL with the Truextent should beat anything short of a TAD, 476Mg or 476Be.
    The TAD is real expensive and the JBL's are unobtainable.

    backing up a couple of posts, the 435al is the one used in the japanese 4338 in order to keep cost down?

    The 4338 uses the 1500FE, 435AL, H4338 and 045Ti to make the intended price point. These drivers are roughly one third the cost of the Al and Be versions (I use the 1500AL, 476Be, H4338 and 045Be.)

    The CAD files for the similar, smaller, H9800 are available, and clones in wood were made in Europe for ~$600 apiece, but they never got it "right" in the critical throat transition region. I do have a prototype of that one which measures well in comparison to the original, and should probably get my act together and make some of them....

    The originals were $1000 a pair, and we can't get any more short of purchasing 4338s in Japan.

    They were right around $1,500 a pair MSRP. They aren't economical like waveguides are.

    I'll not be slicing an H4338 to do similar.

    I tried to get a spare to do just that. It never happened. I guess the H9800 will have to do. That really shouldn't be a problem.



    None of this really goes with the theme of this thread.

  7. #37
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    The CAD files for the similar, smaller, H9800 are available, and clones in wood were made in Europe for ~$600 apiece, but they never got it "right" in the critical throat transition region.
    Zilch, are you reffering to this issue with the mounting plate?


  8. #38
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Yes, basically.

    I'm no expert on this, but I did at one time by Giskard's leave have both a factory H9800 and Widget's clone here to measure. The differences were very minor, and that data is posted on this forum somewhere. Widget is more familiar with the techincal aspects of the issue. I have never run Widget's clone using 2452H-SL.

    Visually, H4338 is H9800 expanded in one dimension; by that, I mean the throat detail, as well. H4338 is two-piece, I presume to allow more precision molding in the undercut region at the throat.

    I was surprised to see the results of the rough directivity measurements of H4338 I did in that Screen Array study; the horizontal dispersion appears to be narrower than I had assumed, which removes some of the questions I had about deploying it vertically such as others have done. I should take a closer look at that and post my findings. Anyone with CLIO, a lazy susan, and a protractor should be able to replicate any study I might undertake. We may still have an H9800 out here to measure for comparison, and Widget's clone, as well, of course.

    If the H9800s are now considered "surplus" in the Project May program, we might be able to recruit Widget to slice one of those, do a scan, and make a precision mold. We did that with H2600 throats here at one time, casting them in pewter. I have another idea for a suitable H9800 casting material, which I did mention to him at one time.

    As to off-topic, I doubt John would have minded (he knew full well what a blogger I am), but if an administrator wants to spin this discussion off into DIY, we might more appropriately continue it there....

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    I was surprised to see the results of the rough directivity measurements of H4338 I did in that Screen Array study; the horizontal dispersion appears to be narrower than I had assumed, which removes some of the questions I had about deploying it vertically such as others have done.
    G.T. is pretty adamant about running it vertical but I have yet to come up with a final design I like. My current boxes are merely 4338 style boxes without the top section for the UHF. The top of the box ends at the top of the H4338. They make for utterly outstanding 4430 replacements and I'm not missing the E2. Well, ok, that's a lie, I love the way the E2 looks...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    If the H9800s are now considered "surplus" in the Project May program, we might be able to recruit Widget to slice one of those, do a scan, and make a precision mold.
    They've been sitting on a shelf for years patiently waiting for eight precision modules to be completed...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    As to off-topic, I doubt John would have minded (he knew full well what a blogger I am), but if an administrator wants to spin this discussion off into DIY, we might more appropriately continue it there....
    I meant that this has nothing to do with 4628B's.

  10. #40
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    G.T. is pretty adamant about running it vertical but I have yet to come up with a final design I like. My current boxes are merely 4338 style boxes without the top section for the UHF. The top of the box ends at the top of the H4338. They make for utterly outstanding 4430 replacements and I'm not missing the E2. Well, ok, that's a lie, I love the way the E2 looks...They've been sitting on a shelf for years patiently waiting for eight precision modules to be completed... I meant that this has nothing to do with 4628B's.
    Then who is willing to do something with 4628B?
    46 lover

  11. #41
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Then who is willing to do something with 4628B?
    If I were you I would use the drivers but ditch the original crossovers and crossover points. I would use the 2118 lower and then cross it over at say 1.5K to a 1" compression driver on a good horn. Add the 2404 if I couldn't get the top octave extension I wanted or wasn't satisfied with it. In that design both the 2118 and 2404 are used to the max limits.The 2118 on the high side and the max lower limit on the 2404. For home application I would not use either driver that way.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  12. #42
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    If I were you I would use the drivers but ditch the original crossovers and crossover points. I would use the 2118 lower and then cross it over at say 1.5K to a 1" compression driver on a good horn. Add the 2404 if I couldn't get the top octave extension I wanted or wasn't satisfied with it. In that design both the 2118 and 2404 are used to the max limits.The 2118 on the high side and the max lower limit on the 2404. For home application I would not use either driver that way.

    Rob
    Thank for your suggestion!pls look at the pics:
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    46 lover

  13. #43
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    More pics:
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    46 lover

  14. #44
    Senior Member martin_wu99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    If I were you I would use the drivers but ditch the original crossovers and crossover points. I would use the 2118 lower and then cross it over at say 1.5K to a 1" compression driver on a good horn. Add the 2404 if I couldn't get the top octave extension I wanted or wasn't satisfied with it. In that design both the 2118 and 2404 are used to the max limits.The 2118 on the high side and the max lower limit on the 2404. For home application I would not use either driver that way.

    Rob
    For home application I would not use either driver that way.
    Why?

    46 lover

  15. #45
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Read this thread from the beginning

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...Cabaret-Series

    To sum it up these are PA boxes. If you like them as is great. The have good drivers that with different crossovers and crossover points can be made into a system more suitable for home use. Take a look at the crossover schematic for the 4628. It's minimal at best. I would not use a 2404 down to 3K becasue it will get harsh sounding. I wouldn't run a 2118 that close to it's upper breakdown region as another example for the same reason. The drivers will work that way but you can make a better sounding system by limiting how far up the 2118 goes and how low the 2404 runs.

    Rob

    http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Net...%20Network.pdf
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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