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Thread: Sounds better than it has a right to!

  1. #1
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Sounds better than it has a right to!

    A couple of years ago I built four boxes with 2344's driven by 2425's with NOS D16R2420's and 2020's. Two are in my office with SUB1500's under them. They are powered with Crown amps driven by a DBX 260 and it sounds pretty good, good enough for an office anyway. The other pair just sat on a bench until recently.

    My bedroom has forever had only a pair of PROIII's driven by an Adcom 565. Everything else I have is DBX active Crown powered multi-way, well all the digital actives are in use and anyway it's been a long time since I had an analog active system so for fun I dug out a bunch of old gear just to see what I could pull off with just stuff I had laying around. Here's where you get to laugh, the EQ is an old Alesis M-EQ 230, the crossover is an old Rane AC53, serial number 54! The amp is a Rane MA6 six channel at 150 watts per and the subs are a pair of 10" GTI1000's that I got from JohnW last year.

    It took about an hour with TEF and RTA to beat it into submission, actually 2344's are a snap and 2020's are so well behaved it was easy and the real suprise is the subs, in some old 1000 cubic inch doghouses I saved from a project and used here just because they had the right sized holes and it sounds WAAAYYY better than it has a right to. It's my first real bookshelf system and it isn't going anywhere soon.

    It has been fun to work with out the "digital toolbox" and see how far I could get "the hard way." Maybe I just got lucky. :^)
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    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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    Member Rex Everything's Avatar
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    If you have any more of those horn/driver combos let me know

  3. #3
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    A couple of years ago I built four boxes with 2344's driven by 2425's with NOS D16R2420's and 2020's. Two are in my office with SUB1500's under them. They are powered with Crown amps driven by a DBX 260 and it sounds pretty good, good enough for an office anyway. The other pair just sat on a bench until recently.

    My bedroom has forever had only a pair of PROIII's driven by an Adcom 565. Everything else I have is DBX active Crown powered multi-way, well all the digital actives are in use and anyway it's been a long time since I had an analog active system so for fun I dug out a bunch of old gear just to see what I could pull off with just stuff I had laying around. Here's where you get to laugh, the EQ is an old Alesis M-EQ 230, the crossover is an old Rane AC53, serial number 54! The amp is a Rane MA6 six channel at 150 watts per and the subs are a pair of 10" GTI1000's that I got from JohnW last year.

    It took about an hour with TEF and RTA to beat it into submission, actually 2344's are a snap and 2020's are so well behaved it was easy and the real suprise is the subs, in some old 1000 cubic inch doghouses I saved from a project and used here just because they had the right sized holes and it sounds WAAAYYY better than it has a right to. It's my first real bookshelf system and it isn't going anywhere soon.

    It has been fun to work with out the "digital toolbox" and see how far I could get "the hard way." Maybe I just got lucky. :^)
    I have one question which would help me too.
    I plan to put in almost the same (horizontal positions) 2123 with 2420+2307+2308.
    As I can see you have used 12-inc driver -2020 and 2426+2344horn. In order to put them in to the same box
    the distance between their 'mid-points' has to be around 13.5 inch ( bout 35cm). Concerning the 2344-horn data that suggested lowest frequency has to be over 1000Hz, where do you "put" crossover frequency between the drivers, and are there some kind of "beaming" or "notching" present in horizontal plane, because such distance (about 35cm) has expect-able notch around 1kHz in at 30deg off-axis in horizontal plane (that is influenced by the 'horizontal' driver mutual positions)

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    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Hi ivica;

    The driver center distance is 12.5" / 31.75cm. The crossover is indeed at 1kHz. There is a small frequency response perturbation at crossover at the listening position that I was able to minimize with a very small amount of added delay to the 12" driver, on the Rane it's just an all-pass with an un-graduated knob so I don't know how much, but very little.

    They are horizontally positioned for two reasons, they are far closer to the ceiling than any other boundary, (this is really their only significant reflection) in this position the spectral reflection is nearly identical to the on axis frequency response except for a notch about 310 Hz when oriented this way. With the woofer on the inside I was able to get it's sidewall first cancellation just out of the passband where the subs are crossed in and oh yeah, they fit on the shelves this way.

    I still need to work on the sub placement, the LF field is fairly homogenous, I think they are just too far separated from the other drivers, the integration could definitely be improved. This is the only room in the house we haven't re-done since we bought it and I want it done before the new year so I need to get the placement worked out before I tear out and replace this "rustic?" book shelf.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    Hi ivica;

    The driver center distance is 12.5" / 31.75cm. The crossover is indeed at 1kHz. There is a small frequency response perturbation at crossover at the listening position that I was able to minimize with a very small amount of added delay to the 12" driver, on the Rane it's just an all-pass with an un-graduated knob so I don't know how much, but very little.

    They are horizontally positioned for two reasons, they are far closer to the ceiling than any other boundary, (this is really their only significant reflection) in this position the spectral reflection is nearly identical to the on axis frequency response except for a notch about 310 Hz when oriented this way. With the woofer on the inside I was able to get it's sidewall first cancellation just out of the passband where the subs are crossed in and oh yeah, they fit on the shelves this way.

    I still need to work on the sub placement, the LF field is fairly homogenous, I think they are just too far separated from the other drivers, the integration could definitely be improved. This is the only room in the house we haven't re-done since we bought it and I want it done before the new year so I need to get the placement worked out before I tear out and replace this "rustic?" book shelf.
    Many thanks for the info. I have expected that some kind of 'position-notch' would happen at around 1000~1100 Hz, concerning the 'driver center distance around 1/3m', but seems that the reflections from the wall (or ceiling) "contribute" that expect-able off-axis notch is not so deep. This is very important experience for my plan (to upgrade 4333 box-clone with 2123 mid-bas, because I plan to put 2123 nearby 2420+2312+2307, and 2405 "over 2420. I was afraid that horizontal "off-axis' notch around 1000Hz would be too noticeable, but your experience 'encourage me' ).
    Any more experience (or measurements) would be welcome. Again many thanks.

  6. #6
    Junior Member Dualbios's Avatar
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    Wow they look amazing can we please have more pics

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    Senior Member hatrack71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Everything View Post
    If you have any more of those horn/driver combos let me know
    Yeah! I have always wanted to play with a set of these too. These are the 4430/4435 horn right?

  8. #8
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Dualbios
    Wow they look amazing can we please have more pics


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    Quote Originally Posted by hatrack71 View Post
    Yeah! I have always wanted to play with a set of these too. These are the 4430/4435 horn right?

    Yes they are. I have horsed around with them quite a bit. I don't have many pictures, one just after they were built and a pair in my office in the vertical stance. One nice bennefit of a square horn.Name:  My Office.jpg
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    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    It has been fun to work with out the "digital toolbox" and see how far I could get "the hard way." Maybe I just got lucky. :^)
    Threre's a lot to be said for taking the long way around.

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