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Thread: Neil Young Wants Digital Music to Die

  1. #16
    Senior Member louped garouv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Never happen. The MP3 and CD have liberated music in a way vinyl never could. Vinyl isn't even a blip on the radar of today's world.

    BTW - remember all those dynamic range expanders back then that tried to fix all those compressed vinyl pressings?Nothing has changed in that respect.
    the kiddo bedroom producers are also very fond of using overly compressed and highly 'normalized' production techniques for their digital works...

    if I find a track that i really like, and is overly compressed -- I will sometimes run it through an older RG unit to try to get some dymanics back....


  2. #17
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    BTW - It took bags of gold to get vinyl to sound good on the large JBL Studio Monitors of the day too. Garbage in, garbage out, and there was plenty of garbage to go around back then too.
    correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the choices either LP or R2R ?

    HJ has touched on "auto tuning" a couple of times ..I read up a bit on that , not good.
    A man on foot or a bike will see more, feel more, enjoy more in one mile than the motorized tourists can in a hundred miles

  3. #18
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the choices either LP or R2R ?

    HJ has touched on "auto tuning" a couple of times ..I read up a bit on that , not good.
    Auto-Tune makes anyone "on pitch" - but its robot voice stuff !!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Tune
    2ch - Oppo DV981, JoLida 502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
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  4. #19
    Senior Member Krunchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    MP3's are fine for mobile devices ....I don't feel that all Cd's are evil

    turntables are not "turnkey" devices like a CD or MP3 player ... they take a level of involvement and education of the system ...when you clean a LP , de-static it, cue it up ...there is a time investment and you normally stay around to enjoy it ...MP3 ? Click "play" and walk away ...great for todays lifestyle where everything has been Ikea-ized.
    when I had an old Porsche 911 , it was the 5 speed with 1st out of the "H" pattern ...rather a PIA . , but you felt a level of accomplishment when you drove it well ...a turntable is such a convoluted system of angles and pressures that you feel some accomplishment just to set the thing up correctly ...records are NOT for everyone ..

    fortunately I live in a town that passes it leisure time with bikes , records , beer and coffee ...there are worse ways to spend your deserved wind down hours..
    Great observations Seawolf.
    Unfortunately, in my Ikea-ized life style I have not had a chance to set up my turn table, even after receiving about 12 milk crates (remember those) stuffed with records from various friends who stopped playing their vinyl.
    I gotta start messing with that thing soon.
    Just play music!

  5. #20
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    I find it ironic that we spend years in search of the holy grail of speakers, then

    Quote Originally Posted by Krunchy View Post
    Great observations Seawolf.
    Unfortunately, in my Ikea-ized life style I have not had a chance to set up my turn table, even after receiving about 12 milk crates (remember those) stuffed with records from various friends who stopped playing their vinyl.
    I gotta start messing with that thing soon.
    match them to high end esoteric amps,pre's and power conditioners, miles of cable and wire etc., but use an IPod for convenience.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    I listen to vinyl for pleasure, and digital medias for convenience. No fancy equipment required to enjoy vinyl. Surface noise is part of the charm of the vinyl media, just like spicse come with curry and sauces with French food... ;-)

  7. #22
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hey19 View Post
    match them to high end esoteric amps,pre's and power conditioners, miles of cable and wire etc., but use an IPod for convenience.
    Well, at the higher bitrate I use (Apple Lossless), my iPod sounds better than the Walkman I used to have back inna day ...
    Much smaller, too!
    2ch - Oppo DV981, JoLida 502, JBL L200+, KEF 105.4
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  8. #23
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    I have to confess that I've never found vinyl surface noise or tape hiss charming.

    Someday I do hope to get all my vinyl transferred to flat files where it belongs. The best part of vinyl, the cover art, will be a real shame to lose. I guess I could scan all the covers in and make a screensaver.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I have to confess that I've never found vinyl surface noise or tape hiss charming.
    Every couple of years I get the urge to experience the rapture expressed by the vinyl aficionado, and it takes about 30 seconds of the first track on the first side to break the spell. So far I've resisted the urge to blurt out something unkind to the person who spent a few hundred to a few thousand on their vinyl analog set ups, because it does mean something to them.

    I still have a few hundred LPs that are not available in another format, but I rarely listen. My emotional attachment is great however, and I keep a simple vinyl system in a spare room. It's hard to listen to it for very long, but there is some great music that will never be on another medium. I suppose I could rip the files and be done with it, but at least with the physical vinyl it's obvious why those extraneous sounds are there.
    In.

  10. #25
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I have to confess that I've never found vinyl surface noise or tape hiss charming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    Every couple of years I get the urge to experience the rapture expressed by the vinyl aficionado, and it takes about 30 seconds of the first track on the first side to break the spell.
    I was about to post, no one likes ticks and pops... but then I thought about all of the contemporary recordings that I have that have digitally added ticks and pops to make them sound like "old school" vinyl.

    That aside, I don't think most people buy and play vinyl records because they like these distractions, but I think there are many reasons that people put up with them. As far as "breaking the spell" I suppose that depends on the spell you are under. For me the crushed sonics of mediocre digital prevents me to fall under the spell of the music, I am not saying that all digital is terrible, but the sound of poor quality digital while free of ticks and pops is also free of the sense of space. This may partially explain why some are drawn towards surround sound as an attempt to regain a sense of space. The music played through a mediocre to average digital system often sounds flat and lifeless... and often it sounds worse.

    I won't pretend that all vinyl sounds great, but in defense of the more expensive playback systems, a high quality moving coil cartridge will usually pick up far less of the ticks and pops than a more average cartridge and the better phono sections can be extremely quiet, not 24 bit quiet, but quiet enough for most of us.


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  11. #26
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    I have a long list of CDs that sound much worst than their vinyl counterpart. No bass, no highs, and very muddy.

    Popcorn on vinyl reminds me that as human we all wear out too and aren't perfect.

  12. #27
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I have to confess that I've never found vinyl surface noise or tape hiss charming.

    Someday I do hope to get all my vinyl transferred to flat files where it belongs. The best part of vinyl, the cover art, will be a real shame to lose. I guess I could scan all the covers in and make a screensaver.
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    Every couple of years I get the urge to experience the rapture expressed by the vinyl aficionado, and it takes about 30 seconds of the first track on the first side to break the spell. So far I've resisted the urge to blurt out something unkind to the person who spent a few hundred to a few thousand on their vinyl analog set ups, because it does mean something to them.

    I still have a few hundred LPs that are not available in another format, but I rarely listen. My emotional attachment is great however, and I keep a simple vinyl system in a spare room. It's hard to listen to it for very long, but there is some great music that will never be on another medium. I suppose I could rip the files and be done with it, but at least with the physical vinyl it's obvious why those extraneous sounds are there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I was about to post, no one likes ticks and pops... but then I thought about all of the contemporary recordings that I have that have digitally added ticks and pops to make them sound like "old school" vinyl.

    That aside, I don't think most people buy and play vinyl records because they like these distractions, but I think there are many reasons that people put up with them. As far as "breaking the spell" I suppose that depends on the spell you are under. For me the crushed sonics of mediocre digital prevents me to fall under the spell of the music, I am not saying that all digital is terrible, but the sound of poor quality digital while free of ticks and pops is also free of the sense of space. This may partially explain why some are drawn towards surround sound as an attempt to regain a sense of space. The music played through a mediocre to average digital system often sounds flat and lifeless... and often it sounds worse.

    I won't pretend that all vinyl sounds great, but in defense of the more expensive playback systems, a high quality moving coil cartridge will usually pick up far less of the ticks and pops than a more average cartridge and the better phono sections can be extremely quiet, not 24 bit quiet, but quiet enough for most of us.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    I have a long list of CDs that sound much worst than their vinyl counterpart. No bass, no highs, and very muddy.

    Popcorn on vinyl reminds me that as human we all wear out too and aren't perfect.
    You guys have me intrigued with your varying thoughts towards vinyl, I will have to find a vinyl setup and some familiar songs to listen to...

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    You guys have me intrigued with your varying thoughts towards vinyl, I will have to find a vinyl setup and some familiar songs to listen to...
    That's the better path if you have the time (and the $$$ if you decide to get your own) to explore it. After all, one person's pleasure is another person's pain is another person's proclivity, and only you can find out what it is to you, if anything. Folks who love vinyl are usually quite eager to share their passion and are very engaging if asked for a demo.
    In.

  14. #29
    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    That's the better path if you have the time (and the $$$ if you decide to get your own) to explore it. After all, one person's pleasure is another person's pain is another person's proclivity, and only you can find out what it is to you, if anything. Folks who love vinyl are usually quite eager to share their passion and are very engaging if asked for a demo.
    The albums sleeve's themselves were works of art as I remember them.. truly. I remember some of them fondly, and it's certainly something something that CD's and mp3's have never been able to replace. Not only did you get music, but you got an interactive work of art that you could admire and whose meaning you could peer into with wonder (as I did a time or two). Just to have a few dozen of these around to touch and display would almost be worth the price of admission.

    I think I would love some records. I can be a bit sentimental and nostalgic, and I think this is part of the draw of the records, the nostalgic sound, the memory of hearing it how you remember it sounding when you first heard it. Good or bad, it's part of the magic that got us started with this passion. Every generation has their experience with music, that aha moment that lets you know you have arrived. I got to listen to some 60's and 70's music as a child, but my generation was the 80's. I remember well walking up the steps to my first day of Junior High, and there was some kids sitting on the steps with a boom-box blaring out Quiet Riot. I knew at that moment t it had all changed, that I was stepping into a whole new something, a six year party that just kept coming at us all through junior high and high school, it was a helleva ride! The dawn of MTV, and music video's were our radio and tape- then CD inserts- were our portable art, and it was awesome!

    I sometimes have to chuckle at the effort and expense that we go through to "get back" to that "magic" sound, at the same time we are striving to get to the "ultimate" sound. There is really no way that is possible if my first generational experience was heard through battery powered ghetto blaster. I guess it isn't just about re-living the past, it's just continuing to live the experience. I think it keeps us young.

    Ipods/digital music are the new boom box, sound,video, and art all in one. The ipod is a system the kids can be proud to show, something that's all theirs. It/digital hasn't killed music, like the music it has evolved, whether we like it or not, whether we esteem it or not, it's still magic to the kids.

    As music affection-ado's what we need to do is to organize and make our wishes about quality known so that the industry knows that we are a viable market. Maybe we could begin a petition and get that petition out to the industry, for better recordings, and better access to it digitally.

  15. #30
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    when I go to record stores or shows , my estimate is that the buyers are:

    90% male , 8% female , 2%
    80% hipsters under 30
    20% old farts (like me) who like lots of "bang for the buck" and are not so
    affected by surface noise ie: able to "cut thru it" and hear the music

    I will repeat : RECORDS ARE NOT FOR EVERYBODY , but the resurgence
    must have some reason behind it.
    A man on foot or a bike will see more, feel more, enjoy more in one mile than the motorized tourists can in a hundred miles

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