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Thread: Neil Young Wants Digital Music to Die

  1. #1
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Neil Young Wants Digital Music to Die

    .
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2399679,00.asp

    sample:

    Death to the MP3. Long live vinyl, said rock icon Neil Young, speaking at an industry conference on Tuesday.
    According to reports from the conference, the musician argued that digitally compressed music - both the CD and the MP3 - should burn out and fade away. And apparently Apple's Steve Jobs felt the same way.


    Young has argued that the MP3 and CD should be tossed on the technology scrap heap, in favor of vinyl, a technology that's been around for decades.
    What now? I'm going to have my cake and eat it too.

  2. #2
    Senior Member louped garouv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    .
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2399679,00.asp

    sample:

    Death to the MP3. Long live vinyl, said rock icon Neil Young, speaking at an industry conference on Tuesday.
    According to reports from the conference, the musician argued that digitally compressed music - both the CD and the MP3 - should burn out and fade away. And apparently Apple's Steve Jobs felt the same way.


    Young has argued that the MP3 and CD should be tossed on the technology scrap heap, in favor of vinyl, a technology that's been around for decades.
    sure would put a damper on digital piracy... wouldn't it...
    at least for folks not willing to bother with digitizing the files...


    seems to me that the "music industry" pushed the digital technology,
    likely in part at least due to potential cost savings in production, manufacturing, distribution...
    but are now not so happy with the current state of affairs...

    the RIAA need to come to terms with the fact that piracy is free advertising, in effect

    and younger artists need to embrace their ability to market and distrubute themselves (their art) to a vast array of potential fans -- with no need for a 'label' in the old sense....

    the cat is out of the bag, so to speak -- and digital is here to stay... too bad for the mega labels...

    you can get very high resolution, quality playback from the digital domain....

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    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    .
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2399679,00.asp

    sample:

    Death to the MP3. Long live vinyl, said rock icon Neil Young, speaking at an industry conference on Tuesday.
    According to reports from the conference, the musician argued that digitally compressed music - both the CD and the MP3 - should burn out and fade away. And apparently Apple's Steve Jobs felt the same way.


    Young has argued that the MP3 and CD should be tossed on the technology scrap heap, in favor of vinyl, a technology that's been around for decades.
    Jon Bon Jovi slams Steve Jobs for 'killing' music

    http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=635420

    Personally, I blame grunge!

    I haven't listened to vinyl in my adult life, so I am not sure of what I am missing. I doubt that it is Steve Jobs though, like alot of others I got into compressed music in the P2P days before there was an AAC.

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    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    I haven't listened to vinyl in my adult life, so I am not sure of what I am missing.
    well, us older guys grew up with vinyl and now kinda chuckle at its revival....you should, just for curiosity sake , find a friend with a decent TT setup and give a listen ....it CAN sound better sometimes , but not always.

    part of the appeal is that many albums never got ported to CD and are only available on vinyl , and the going price is usually a buck each ...many have photos or pamphlets or posters and interesting liner notes. Vinyl is huge here in Portland...there are a good number of used record stores.

    my 30 y.o. son who starts on his PhD. soon (yeah, shameless plug from proud Dad) bought a Technics SL-1200 and is so happy that he's trading in old CD's for Lp's ....another benefit ?? he's now easy to shop birthdays & Christmas for ...
    What now? I'm going to have my cake and eat it too.

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    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    well, us older guys grew up with vinyl and now kinda chuckle at its revival....you should, just for curiosity sake , find a friend with a decent TT setup and give a listen ....it CAN sound better sometimes , but not always.

    part of the appeal is that many albums never got ported to CD and are only available on vinyl , and the going price is usually a buck each ...many have photos or pamphlets or posters and interesting liner notes. Vinyl is huge here in Portland...there are a good number of used record stores.

    my 30 y.o. son who starts on his PhD. soon (yeah, shameless plug from proud Dad) bought a Technics SL-1200 and is so happy that he's trading in old CD's for Lp's ....another benefit ?? he's now easy to shop birthdays & Christmas for ...
    I can report that I am just getting into tubes. I just picked up an in- line tube processor and was so pleased with it that I'm looking for a tube preamp. It just makes the sound so smooth and wide, and yet it's so sublime, not over-cooked. As a kid and I played records that belonged to my older siblings or parents, but I can't recall any of the sonic qualities. I am worried that if I get into records I'll need to invest heavily in equipment to get good results. I am getting to the point where I only want the best recordings. Wyoming isn't the best place for vinyl shopping, or anything audio for that matter. Is your son studying to be a medical doctor?

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    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    Is your son studying to be a medical doctor?
    PhD, but not M.D. He just returned from the University of London where he finished his Masters. Lives in Chicago ...I am storing his L100's and he uses L56's in their little apartment.

    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    Wyoming isn't the best place for vinyl shopping, or anything audio for that matter.
    He seems to think that Portland is better for audio shopping than his big city. We are close enough to Calif , and we get their refugees , so that JBL's aren't so exotic here.

    Well, your situation has to have improved with internet shopping ??
    What now? I'm going to have my cake and eat it too.

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    Senior Member pathfindermwd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    PhD, but not M.D. He just returned from the University of London where he finished his Masters. Lives in Chicago ...I am storing his L100's and he uses L56's in their little apartment.



    He seems to think that Portland is better for audio shopping than his big city. We are close enough to Calif , and we get their refugees , so that JBL's aren't so exotic here.

    Well, your situation has to have improved with internet shopping ??
    London huh? That's very impressive! I'd like to get over there sometime myself for a vacation/concert, Mark Knopfler maybe?

    Yes the internet has helped me buy things, but doesn't help with the auditioning much. So I have to rely heavily upon the reviews I read here. I just bought the Performance Series units, never heard them before. But you may agree that to some extent it's not just about the sound, but the product also, and the Performance Series with it's titanium drivers just look to be a quality JBL product, and if the price is right, how can one go wrong? If I would have seen those 250ti's you drug home before I ordered- I definitely would have been all over that! But my friends have the 250ti's and though they are of course second to none, I wanted to do see what modern design has brought us.

    So do you think we will find some common ground with music quality vs storage in some new technology?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    When CDs will not be sold/produced anymore, and that people will realize that crappy MP3s are just that, well, crappy. Then vinyl will remain the logical prospect: so many unknow bands to rediscover. And at least something tangible to hold in your hands...

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    Senior Member JBLAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    I can report that I am just getting into tubes. I just picked up an in- line tube processor and was so pleased with it that I'm looking for a tube preamp. It just makes the sound so smooth and wide, and yet it's so sublime, not over-cooked. As a kid and I played records that belonged to my older siblings or parents, but I can't recall any of the sonic qualities. I am worried that if I get into records I'll need to invest heavily in equipment to get good results.
    reading this I had a flashback of using the felt brush cleaner on an LP....with the bottle of cleaner that fit inside the wood. Hadn't thought about that probably since 1980. Picking the stray lint off the BIC needle......

    The rush of Baba O'Riley on vinyl through the Pioneer SX-737 and orange grilled L100s......will never know if it really was as euphoric as I remember.....but damn the memory is awesome.
    Performance Series 5.1/1990s L1.L5.L7/L100A
    http://adsoftheworld.com/media/tv/ac...cuses_tube_amp

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    Senior Member 4343's Avatar
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    Cool Pop! Click!

    My problem with vinyl is the stray noises just drive me nuts! I once bought every copy of an LP from a used record shop (one at a time) before deciding that the all had been overcut in exactly the same place...
    I have a very clean LP collection, most have only been played once, for the tape machine, and I still can't stand to listen to them. (I began recording professionally at an early age, so have always had a reel to reel machine around.) When you realize that most every vintage LP started out as a reel to reel recording of some sort, it just makes sense to want to get as close to the original as possible. Preserving the first pass on tape has been my only real use for LP's. Digitizing them is a disaster, I spend more time editing out the pops and clicks than the music is worth to me! It sometimes sounds better to record a CD on tape and digitize that, saves time at a minimum...
    Back when the CD was still in the future, and after hearing some early experimental systems, I was of the opinion that 16 bit was not enough, I thought 30 made more sense. I also thought that 100KHz was the minimum that would sound good to me. 24/96 does sound OK now, I'm left to wonder if my younger ears would think the same.

    MP3's? Useful as free advertising I guess.
    Mike Scott in SJ, CA
    Drive 'em to the Xmax!

  11. #11
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathfindermwd View Post
    But my friends have the 250ti's and though they are of course second to none,
    that's a nice sentiment, but there are of course many that have surpassed it ...still pretty nice tho

    Quote Originally Posted by JBLAddict View Post
    reading this I had a flashback of using the felt brush cleaner on an LP....with the bottle of cleaner that fit inside the wood. Hadn't thought about that probably since 1980. Picking the stray lint off the BIC needle......
    yup, I have 4 walnut DiskWashers with the little red D4 bottle ... and dust bugs and zerostats.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4343 View Post
    My problem with vinyl is the stray noises just drive me nuts!
    Only buy the best condition available disks, turn down MANY great titles because of poor condition ...

    I ride bikes a lot ,,, at first all the street surface bumps annoyed the Hell out of me (jarring my old back) , but now I just kinda "tune them out" as most likely happens with LP's pops
    What now? I'm going to have my cake and eat it too.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    Only buy the best condition available disks, turn down MANY great titles because of poor condition ...

    I ride bikes a lot ,,, at first all the street surface bumps annoyed the Hell out of me (jarring my old back) , but now I just kinda "tune them out" as most likely happens with LP's pops
    Yes, yes, and yes... on the bike front, avoid aluminum bikes, they are more jarring than steel... (OK, I know about Cannondale, carbon fiber, and titanium bikes, but in the affordable realm go with steel)

    On the ticks and pops front, some records were just pressed that way... too bad, but usually a good washing with a VPI or Nitty Gritty will make all the difference in the world.

    Also, Mr. Wolf is correct above... analog records will often sound better than the CD, but not always. And then there are the vinyl records starting in the early 80s where the master was recorded on the low rez digital that was SOTA then... the analog vinyl sounds as dead and lifeless as the CD version and has ticks and pops as a bonus!


    Widget

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    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Yes, yes, and yes... on the bike front, avoid aluminum bikes, they are more jarring than steel... (OK, I know about Cannondale, carbon fiber, and titanium bikes, but in the affordable realm go with steel)
    Widget
    And here I thought I was the only one with a bicycle stable that is all steel and has a fork crown on every one. None of the local bike shops here have a single new frame with a fork crown.

    I think Tom Richey invented the unicrown, but the handsomest fork crown I have ever seen is on a road bike he did for Bridgestone. Mine in fact, the RB-1. (I admit the Masi crowns were georgious. Always loved Italian frames.) The American product manager of Bridgestone, when they were still here in US, is the head of Rivendell. All their bikes - very expensive and designed to ride all day - have fork crowns.

    Clark

    http://sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1993/index.htm See pages 10, 11, 12, 13, 25, and 38. But the entire catalog is a great read. There is even a Peter Egan feature.
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


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    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Yes, yes, and yes... on the bike front, avoid aluminum bikes, they are more jarring than steel... (OK, I know about Cannondale, carbon fiber, and titanium bikes, but in the affordable realm go with steel)

    On the ticks and pops front, some records were just pressed that way... too bad, but usually a good washing with a VPI or Nitty Gritty will make all the difference in the world.

    Also, Mr. Wolf is correct above... analog records will often sound better than the CD, but not always. And then there are the vinyl records starting in the early 80s where the master was recorded on the low rez digital that was SOTA then... the analog vinyl sounds as dead and lifeless as the CD version and has ticks and pops as a bonus!


    Widget
    bikes ? my best Touring Bike is Reynolds 520 chromoly , the others are steel alloy too....I like steel bikes.

    there can of course be long comparative discussions of bikes/cars/records/Cd's/MP3's ..and their relationships
    (can't believe that Phil hasn't jumped in yet with an auto analogy)

    MP3's are fine for mobile devices ....I don't feel that all Cd's are evil

    turntables are not "turnkey" devices like a CD or MP3 player ... they take a level of involvement and education of the system ...when you clean a LP , de-static it, cue it up ...there is a time investment and you normally stay around to enjoy it ...MP3 ? Click "play" and walk away ...great for todays lifestyle where everything has been Ikea-ized.

    when I had an old Porsche 911 , it was the 5 speed with 1st out of the "H" pattern ...rather a PIA . , but you felt a level of accomplishment when you drove it well ...a turntable is such a convoluted system of angles and pressures that you feel some accomplishment just to set the thing up correctly ...records are NOT for everyone ..

    fortunately I live in a town that passes it leisure time with bikes , records , beer and coffee ...there are worse ways to spend your deserved wind down hours..
    What now? I'm going to have my cake and eat it too.

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    Death to the MP3. Long live vinyl, said rock icon Neil Young, speaking at an industry conference on Tuesday.

    According to reports from the conference, the musician argued that digitally compressed music - both the CD and the MP3 - should burn out and fade away. And apparently Apple's Steve Jobs felt the same way.


    Young has argued that the MP3 and CD should be tossed on the technology scrap heap, in favor of vinyl, a technology that's been around for decades.
    Never happen. The MP3 and CD have liberated music in a way vinyl never could. Vinyl isn't even a blip on the radar of today's world.

    BTW - remember all those dynamic range expanders back then that tried to fix all those compressed vinyl pressings?
    I am worried that if I get into records I'll need to invest heavily in equipment to get good results. I am getting to the point where I only want the best recordings.
    Nothing has changed in that respect. It took bags of gold to get vinyl to sound good on the large JBL Studio Monitors of the day. Garbage in, garbage out, and there was plenty of garbage to go around back then too.

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