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Thread: DIY Everest DD66000....finally

  1. #106
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Are they toed in enough? (OK that was a question.)
    Widget
    I think I prefer the slightly off axis sound. Measurements show that it doesn't matter soundwise.
    I need to experiment with the soundstage though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    And second, As I look at my pair I think it odd that Ashcraft didn't make the UHF tweeter module the same width as the inner die-cast black section of the mid horn. On the factory DD66000s the tweeter modules is slightly narrower. On yours I see that you made it slightly wider... seems to me the lines would be cleaner if the black tweeter and horn sections looked like a single projected arc.
    Widget
    You are right. In fact it's a construction error
    Do I care? Not really.

    Before I MAYBE change this I need to finish my DIY DAC and my new passlabs clones. It will take tiiimmmeeee.

  2. #107
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Daugaard View Post

    >>I [i.e. Widget] think it odd that Ashcraft didn't make the UHF tweeter module
    >>the same width as the inner die-cast black section of the mid horn.
    The upper horizontal line in the drawing below marks the transition from
    the inner die-cast black section to the lips. That horizontal line is also a tangent to the UHF module.
    As a designer, once I saw the first prototype, I would have changed the radius of the tweeter module so that the two black elements, the cast mid horn section and the tweeter module appeared to be both the same width... my comment is purely a subjective aesthetic one, but looking at the design of the factory DD66000, it looks like a goof to me. But then I have been spending far too much time staring at them as I spend hour after hour enjoying what they do.

    As to the toe in, I have mine set to an equilateral triangle using the throat of the mid driver as two of the vertices with the centerline approximately aimed at the listener... so something closer to 60°.


    Widget

  3. #108
    Senior Member maxwedge's Avatar
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    Very nice Guido!

  4. #109
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Thank you for all the compliments.

    This wouldn't have been possible without the help of some forum members. Also my "hell of a carpenter" did a perfect job.

    The rework of the crossover for the 1500AL use isn't trivial also. It's still not finalized, but close to.

    For the ambitious DIYers here:
    The design CAN be "cloned" moreorless. Thinking of a truextent 2450SL or Radian 951PB driver with 2pc ME150 per side. Forget the supertweeter. EV 2 Horns clones in a nice cabinet. Why not?

  5. #110
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    For those irritated by the high resolution of the curves here is a "brochure like" curve.
    10dB scaling
    1/12 smoothing

    Sound is wonderful. Still no cc battery in place, so it will be smoooother.
    Your Work (with large "W") is absolutely amazing, concerning mechanical and acoustical results. From your measurements MF horn behaves like CD with almost the same behavior i to +/-30 deg region (horizontal) up to 18kHz. May be some of the member can explain the reasons. May be that small (about 90 deg wide) conical horn near the driver mouth, and small 'negative' expansion in vertical plane is the main reason for total horn behavior.
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post327827
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post327831

    If some more dimensions data would be available about the mentioned "adapter" would be well-come.
    Some more then:
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post327863
    "....PS: The JBL BiRadial flares near the adapter are conical and later exponential........."

    Do You think that:

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ll=1#post48092

    is enough, or You have some more suggestions.

    Regards
    Ivica

  6. #111
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Ivica, you can try to contact member Jan Daugaard. He designed the first version of the EV2 clone horn. He can comment on these version. He is very good in horn design.
    I tested another version which is a widened H9800 which I mentioned earlier. My attempt wasn't scientific but trial and error. The H9800 CAD files are here at the forum. Scale and modifiy it to fit the Everest dimensions and you are done. I can't proof but I'm pretty sure it's close enough to the original horn. It even measured identical to Widgets curve with the original EV2 crossover circuit in place.

    Greg would be able to tell us but I doubt he will

    Jan's version was very nice too but not so easy to EQ with the crossover. So I decided to finally go with the H9800'ish horn. Adapter and lips are different than the first attempt.

  7. #112
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivica View Post
    May be some of the member can explain the reasons. May be that small (about 90 deg wide) conical horn near the driver mouth, and small 'negative' expansion in vertical plane is the main reason for total horn behavior.
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post327827
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post327831

    Regards
    Ivica

    This is the final adapter

    It was confirmed in an earlier post that this "little thing" creates the sound.
    The visual lines aren't really there. It's for clarification. The adapter is rounded there.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  8. #113
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    It was confirmed in an earlier post that this "little thing" creates the sound.
    Yes, as per Greg.

    Both the H4338 and 1400 Array/SAM1HF horns have front and back sections unlike the H9800. Additionally, the 1400 Array/SAM1HF back horn comes in two halves (so the 1400 Array/SAM1HF horn actually comprises three separate sections). Perhaps I will take one apart in the next day or two and take a picture for the curious.

    In hindsight, two things could have happened. Guido could have either modeled the back horn of the H4338 I sent him or I could have sent him a 1400 Array back horn to model. Either back horn can be mated to whatever front horn is desired. At one point I wanted to make a 15.25" wide front horn (same width as a 1500AL) to mate with the H4338 back horn instead of the stock 20.375" wide H4338 front horn, but Greg was so adamant about me using a vertical horn instead that I canned the idea.

    The H9800 model was derived from a prototype assembly that came in two halves. As everyone knows, the production H9800 horn was actual a one piece affair.

    Of all the horns the H4338 "measures" the "best". The real key to all of them though is using the correct notch filters per specific application. For example, as per Greg, the H4338 horn "likes" a little scoop out in the 4k to 6k range, if response is flat it just doesn't sound quiet as nice.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    Thank you for all the compliments.

    This wouldn't have been possible without the help of some forum members. Also my "hell of a carpenter" did a perfect job.
    I think the result is absolutely fantastic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    The rework of the crossover for the 1500AL use isn't trivial also. It's still not finalized, but close to.
    It definitely isn't trivial. Consider that Greg eventually went all active with his pair to get the best out of the bottom end. And now he is actually considering replacing one of the 1501AL's on each side with a brand new 15xx design that Jerry is working on with even lower Fs.

  10. #115
    Senior Member ivica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    Ivica, you can try to contact member Jan Daugaard. He designed the first version of the EV2 clone horn. He can comment on these version. He is very good in horn design.
    I tested another version which is a widened H9800 which I mentioned earlier. My attempt wasn't scientific but trial and error. The H9800 CAD files are here at the forum. Scale and modifiy it to fit the Everest dimensions and you are done. I can't proof but I'm pretty sure it's close enough to the original horn. It even measured identical to Widgets curve with the original EV2 crossover circuit in place.

    Greg would be able to tell us but I doubt he will

    Jan's version was very nice too but not so easy to EQ with the crossover. So I decided to finally go with the H9800'ish horn. Adapter and lips are different than the first attempt.
    It would be helpful if You know where "H9800 CAD" can be find.
    Regards
    Ivica

  11. #116
    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    For example, as per Greg, the H4338 horn "likes" a little scoop out in the 4k to 6k range, if response is flat it just doesn't sound quiet as nice.
    I think it has to do with the off axis behavior of these horns, with a very wide horizontal directivity in this range.

    Here are the measurement of my H9800 clones with 2435 (after on axis eq) :

    horizontals:
    Name:  H9800 2435H horizontal.png
Views: 9021
Size:  15.8 KB


    This phenomenon can also be guessed from Toole's averaged curves:
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post121940

    The verticals (also included in Toole's averagings) are better behaved:
    Name:  H9800 2435H vertical.png
Views: 5035
Size:  16.1 KB

  12. #117
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivica View Post
    It would be helpful if You know where "H9800 CAD" can be find.
    Regards
    Ivica
    You guys are really lazy

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...-Data&p=232914

  13. #118
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Guido...

    Ivica didn't have Project May access... I just gave him the added permissions.


    Widget

  14. #119
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Guido...

    Ivica didn't have Project May access... I just gave him the added permissions.


    Widget
    Could i also get it?

    -Tim
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

  15. #120
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Sure...


    Widget

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